The Foureva Podcast
Welcome to The Foureva Podcast, where we break barriers and redefine success!
Join host Jamar Jones, a dynamic entrepreneur, national speaker, and author of "Change Your Circle, Change Your Life," as he takes you on an extraordinary journey of inspiration and motivation.
In each episode, we bring you an impressive lineup of star-studded guests, each with a unique voice and a wealth of insights to share. From industry leaders to renowned experts, we uncover their secrets to success in personal, business, and marketing domains. Prepare to be captivated by their stories, strategies, and experiences that will empower you to reach new heights.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a marketing professional, or simply seeking fresh perspectives on life and business, The Foureva Podcast is your ultimate destination. Discover the transformative power of changing your circle and unlocking your full potential. With each episode, we delve into the minds of the most influential voices in the industry, providing you with the tools and inspiration you need to overcome obstacles and achieve greatness.
Don't miss out on this dynamic podcast that will fuel your ambition, challenge your limits, and propel you toward success. Tune in to The Foureva Podcast and join a community of driven individuals who are ready to make an impact. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and 'foureva' transformed!
The Foureva Podcast
How to Create Value with Video: An Entrepreneur's Guide to Success
Ever wondered how a Marine Corps veteran can transition seamlessly into a successful freelance production career? Our latest episode features Jesse, the founder of Sieff Studios, who shares his inspiring story of moving from military service to entrepreneurship. Jesse reveals how his experience in social media and video production during his time in the Marines laid the groundwork for his business, and how supporting his wife’s ongoing military career with flexibility was a driving factor. Reflect on our memorable first meeting at the Beast X event in Denver and learn why stepping out of your comfort zone can be pivotal for professional growth.
Join us as we sail to the picturesque shores of Annapolis, Maryland, where we meet a multi-talented musician and entrepreneur who converted his home into a cutting-edge recording studio. From his days in the Marine Drum and Bugle Corps to becoming a published composer, his journey is both unique and inspiring. Discover how the collaborative efforts of his family, especially his wife’s interior design acumen and his father-in-law’s architectural skills, contributed to creating a COVID-proof business model. He opens up about the triumphs and trials of entrepreneurship and the joy of seeing his music flourish through royalties.
Finally, we dive deep into vital discussions for creative professionals, tackling everything from the strategic use of video for education and workforce development to the nuances of pricing in the creative industry. Learn how to ask the right questions about your video content to ensure it provides value and understand the real metrics of success beyond just going viral. We also emphasize the importance of personal branding during career transitions, particularly for veterans and military spouses, and share powerful strategies for building a sustainable pricing model. This episode is brimming with actionable insights to help you elevate your brand and navigate the entrepreneurial landscape with confidence.
If I can execute these types of productions for an organization like the Marine Corps in my free time and do that at a high level and execute at the standards that the Marines have, what's to stop me from doing that in the private space and start doing freelancing and start doing my own contracts and clients, gotcha. So I started piecing that together and as I left the Marine Corps you know they're they're like you know, here's an award you tripled our social media following. You reached over five and a half million impressions video campaigns. So I'm like okay, that is what I'm going to start with. Yeah, I think it's like all right, here's what I can do under really difficult conditions in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And in 2020, I ended up getting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And starting Steve Studios in January of 2021. Okay, and that was one half of the why. The other was simply so that I can be more flexible for my wife. Yeah, she's still in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 4:What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another killer, banger episode of the Forever Podcast. It's your boy, it's your host, jamar Jones, the founder of Forever Media, national keynote speaker and the author of the book Change your Circle, change your Life, and we go and dive into a particular topic, an industry that I really love, which is production and really how to market yourself, how to get out there, how to elevate your brand, and we're going to go into the story. I always give a little bit of a background of how we met, and we actually met at Beast X.
Speaker 4:It was in Denver and it was an incredible, incredible event. It just I can't put words on it because it was with my man, travis Lochner. He's a beast, yeah. So we met out there and he was actually doing the videography Not Travis Jesse, um, and so I just want to make sure you don't get confused. But, uh, we met and he was doing the, the videography for the event, doing a full recap, and, um, we got to chop it up and, you know, after a year later, we actually got here in the making. So he's actually the uh, owner of safe studios, um, and yeah, we got my man, jesse, in the building. What's going on, man?
Speaker 1:it's awesome. You thought you'd man this is. This is great and after a year of the beast x experience, I think just uh nostalgic that we can look back to see how amazing that was bringing oh my god all these people together and I know I went out on a whim right yeah, yeah I was asked. You know we were, we were talking and I'm like do you have people making recap videos of this? Because, like I'm looking for a good reason to go, you know, get my travels in. I love Denver.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love what Travis is doing and obviously like meeting you there. Yeah, and all the incredible people that were just brought together for this thing. We're already I mean, we're still seeing the effects of doing something like that and going outside of your comfort zone, expanding your circles, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what you're all about, man. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that experience leading into now following up with you. Yeah, it's just awesome to be catching, to be re-catching up again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But now, knowing what you're up to and with what we have going on, I just I'm just excited. There's a lot to talk about.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, and I love to see your growth too. Ever since we met, obviously we've been following each other on LinkedIn and just seeing your growth man already Like this beautiful studio that we're in right now. This is in Maryland and Annapolis, right? Did I say that? Right? Annapolis, maryland. Beautiful view of the water, by the way.
Speaker 4:If you come out and come kick in with my boy, you're going to have a beautiful view of the water and an excellent service here, as we're live in your studio right now, um, and it's beautiful, man, like you have a full setup in this mug. I mean it's, it's incredible, and you built a lot of it from your two hands which is, which is like this.
Speaker 4:It's amazing. I love when people build stuff like with their own, like it just shows the ingenuity behind it and there's a lot that goes into that. Why build the studio? Let's start there real quick. Why build the studio and what is it for?
Speaker 1:no-transcript. I auditioned for the Marine Corps and ended up serving four years in the United States Marine Drum and Bugle Corps as a drummer, so that was my foundation Very musical person. I had a decade of experience leading up to that, and my wife is also a Marine Corps musician and she's in the president's zone, so we're both musical, artistic people. So at a base level, we like the idea of having a space in our house that we can come practice our instruments. Right, if we wanted to start recording things.
Speaker 1:And I happen to be a published composer and I've taught a number of different organizations and institutions from high school, college and beyond and being able to create digital assets in-house, literally, is to me, a COVID proof fulfilling and sustainable and lucrative business model. Right, because this is something that I can go and do anytime I have the short like I said earlier, it's the shortest commute you can get. I really am just so fortunate to be able to be in a position where we can do this, and the other reason why is because it's just in alignment with what we're doing with CEEF Studios, which is just providing top level production services as well as consulting and coaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, and it's something that has been a dream for a while and it, you know, takes time to get the resources together and planning, and none of it would have been possible if we didn't have the skill sets that we have and the desires that we have. So my wife is an incredible interior designer, yeah, in addition to being a musician. So she really spearheaded the aesthetics and a lot of the nuances that I couldn't possibly, you know, be able to do without a lot of research, and her father is a retired architect and he was kind of the supervisor, the brains, and provided us a lot of the, the tools and the know-how to be able to pull this off in a diy fashion, and that's what really made it possible because, yeah, other than that it would have taken years and years and years, uh, to do this, but, um, the timing was good. Other than that, we just had our twin daughters in January, which we're super grateful for. Congrats.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:If I would have done it differently, I probably wouldn't have built this studio right before they were born, but nonetheless, we are now open for business, open to most clients here. But yeah, it was an eight month build.
Speaker 4:It was a very very tedious process, but Jeez.
Speaker 1:It's good to be on the show.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's incredible. And what got you also into entrepreneurship? Never asked you that Like, what's like, why entrepreneurship?
Speaker 1:Really good question. So, as I mentioned, the music background started with composing my own piece for the audition for the Marines, okay, and that piece is called Chopstikovich. If you, if you type my name into YouTube, you'll probably see a lot of drumming videos, okay, and that is the catalyst that kind of proved the possibility to me, right, it proved that being an entrepreneur was possible because I wrote this piece out, and the only reason I did is because it was required for the audition. But I'm like, all right, you know, I'll put this out there. I put the YouTube video up. That'll be my audition video. I have the piece and I was approached by Tapspace and they're a music publishing company and they're like, like, have you ever thought about publishing this? And I'm like I haven't until now. So like let's do it. So, uh, we worked together, um, the tap space crew and my and myself cleaned up the music and got it into a place where it's like ready to be bound and wrapped and shipped, and they took care of all of that stuff. Yeah, and I started getting royalties off of this music, yeah, and I'm like, oh, my goodness, you know, I start seeing like sales coming in and I had a website with other pieces, and people that saw the video went to the website, downloaded the music and it went to a Stripe account and into my bank account. I'm like, okay, that's possible, right right into my bank account. I'm like, okay, that's possible.
Speaker 1:In the meantime, I'm joining the Marine Corps, so the idea of entrepreneurship is kind of just in the back of my head, and it really wasn't until I got out of the Marines which, by the way, I spent three years of that four-year enlistment in the public affairs office, so learning these marketing skills and social media, doing a lot of the outward facing campaigns for the Marine Corps, which, if you know anything about the Marines, they very much care about their brand, so high stakes. We're in a ceremonial unit in Washington DC representing high visibility military units and they were turning to me to create commercials and okay. So it had to be really good and I didn't have a lot of resources and really short timelines. Yeah, I had another job on top of it, it was being a musician.
Speaker 1:So I'm like, okay, let's, let's think about this here, if I can execute these types of productions for an organization like the marine Corps in my free time and do that at a high level and execute at the standards that the Marines have. What's to stop me from doing that in the private space and start doing freelancing and start doing my own contracts and clients, gotcha. So I started piecing that together and, um, as I left the marine corps, you know they're, they're like you know, here's an award. You tripled our social media following. You reached over five and a half million impressions, video campaigns. So I'm like, okay, that is uh what I'm gonna start with. Yeah, I think it's like all right, here's what I can do under really difficult conditions in the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And in 2020, I ended up getting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And starting Steve Studios in January of 2021. Okay, and that was one half of the why. The other was simply so that I can be more flexible for my wife yeah, she's still in the Marine Corps, okay, and being the one that can be flexible with my schedule. And you know, if we're raising a family together, it helps if two people are in the military who have no control of their schedule. Essentially so, and that was my primary motivation, yeah, and once I decided to do it, I'm like I have no other choice and going all in.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So. So it really was for the freedom, um, but you also got a little. You got a taste of it, um, before the Marine Corps and then even inside the Marine Corps, you, you started to actually develop the skills you know it's actually. You know, run campaigns. How do you grow a brand, I mean, especially under the tight deadlines? I often tell people that being an entertainer or being a musician is a gateway into entrepreneurship, because you essentially are an entrepreneur, because there's really no written path for someone that's in music. It's a very for the most part it's a lonely road. There's no one.
Speaker 4:A lot of times in school, school and stuff, you get to. You know, have a teacher, you get to have mentors, you get to like there's there's kind of like a way to to get in certain occupations but like for a musician, uh, you kind of a lot of stuff is. I mean, there's lessons and stuff you can get. But once you really start getting into it, it's kind of a self-taught thing. You know you got to learn a lot. You really start getting into it. It's kind of a self-taught thing. You know you got to learn a lot. You got to kind of self-educate, kind of try a bunch of stuff. Uh, present yourself, especially if you're a solo act. Um, like you have to learn a lot of principles about, like, starting a business, you know?
Speaker 1:um and with people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:To adjust and adapt and listen right yes, it's like work with people yeah, the improvisation skills alone. Yeah, is an entrepreneurial uh trait. Yeah, I've leaned on a lot. It's like, how do you figure it out? Yeah things don't go as planned, how?
Speaker 4:can you?
Speaker 4:adjust and keep playing, yeah, importantly, yeah, it's such a, it's like such a slept on skill. I feel like just being a musician, it just, you know, being an entertainer going because, like when I was in music, like that, everything that I did when I was a hip hop artist, I've applied it to business. Like everything you know for the marketing, the websites, like I was pitching and selling myself to all these different venues and promoters and way, you know, and getting booked. I booked over you know the peak. I was doing like a hundred shows a year. So I was like performing, like every weekend I'm out and then I'm back to the day job and then I'm out and then back to the day job, out.
Speaker 4:So, but I learned all those those elements of how to sell, how you know business development, marketing. You know business development marketing. You know, um, legal cause I had to make sure my stuff was all put together, Um, and I learned about those things. It's just so crucial for for business and so I I feel like it's like a slept on skill. That's not, like often thought about as like a real business skill, but I think it is. I think it's a and you have a huge advantage because you've already maybe gotten turned down. You've already you know um had some of that uh, pushback. You know, as you're growing, even the music stuff you did do before the marine corps, and now, like you're able to then apply that to business like, oh, somebody didn't call me back, okay, all right I don't think I've ever gotten an audition on the first time yeah, I've tried for all kinds of different drum corps and competitive organizations and getting into music school.
Speaker 1:I have really no background in music. I didn't have in my first year yeah like I took all the requirements you know the prerequisites and Then the next year I'm like all right, I'm working up my. I'm basically filling in the gaps of where I failed the first time so that the next time that I go back I one of the toughest things you could do, I feel like in any field.
Speaker 4:So kind of going into you know, who do you serve, what are some special projects that you want to just talk about real quick, you know, like just things that you really love doing, and talk a little bit about the process as well, yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Our niche is basically workforce development, okay, and we're focusing on hiring individuals, so that interchange between candidate and recruiter, asking ourselves, the question how can we streamline those interactions with folks so that we can make the job search a little less painful and more transparent and authentic? And essentially we are a consulting firm first, so we're using a consultative approach, asking what is most important to you and your company right now. Right, where are we headed? Headed? What does success look like? How can we reverse, engineer, uh, an optimal result for whatever it is you're trying to do?
Speaker 1:Maybe your most important kpis are time-based. You're you're spending way too much time doing this one thing, and if only there was this tool out there that can record really good answers to your questions. We could start asking ourselves like what is, where are your touch points and how can we amplify those to save your time? Another metric is is generating revenue? Of course, if we have, um, uh, top of funnel awareness solved for you, probably, might you know, you might run into the problem of a bottom of funnel onboarding pre-. You probably might you know you might run into the problem of a bottom of funnel onboarding pre-qualifying. And you know how can we give everyone a good experience as they come through that client journey and how can we be proactive and empathetic by educating them in advance so that you have a better experience from, from being a stranger to being an onboarded employee or client.
Speaker 1:So we're looking at that whole life cycle on a consultative model and finding out where are the interactions, where are the touch points. And then we're saying what's the results mechanism for you to invest in media? How are we going to know that this is a good investment? So you know, we're a production company that's the other arm of the business, but I'm not the guy that's going to sell you videos if you don't need them. We want to prove that it'll be effective first. Yeah, and that makes it a very easy decision to invest in media. Yeah, because you can see, you know, by using the scientific method.
Speaker 1:Here's what we hypothesize our audience wants to hear. By using the scientific method. Here's what we hypothesize our audience wants to hear. Here's what they need to know, think and do for us to be successful as a business. And then we're going to put that on trial. We're going to ask ourselves does that work or does it not work? And we're going to find out what works and do more of that. That's the level of clarity that we want before saying let's go ahead and shoot a commercial.
Speaker 4:It's like let's slow down and map. That's great, because that oftentimes that doesn't happen, that level of clarity. Oh my God, the amount of times people have come to us to just be like, yeah, I want this, we need a video. Why?
Speaker 2:I don't know, somebody told me.
Speaker 1:I need a video. Everyone else is doing video. Surely we must.
Speaker 2:It's like like holy crap, you didn't think about this, it didn't. It didn't go any further than what you just did, right we need a video.
Speaker 1:it's crazy, yeah, it's crazy, but it's asking the questions like attribution, right, it's always solving for the outcomes. Yeah, okay, so if we have a video, where does it go? Yeah, right, and I always use that as a future state. So you asked about the process. I ask let's say we give you everything you want, yeah, what platforms are you posting it on? Are you going to be recycling it? Are you going to be redistributing it on other platforms? That helps us, as the production company, format the actual deliverables For the application that's going to be on.
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah if they're.
Speaker 1:If they don't really have a good answer to that question, then we're kind of just hoping and praying that it delivers some value for them, right, right, and a lot of people get that confused because they see viral videos, yeah, and they think that that is what success is. Yeah, but if you don't have a way to capitalize on that one metric, which is people seeing it, then we have some more work to do. So those are the conversations that I like having with people in that industry. I do work with government as well. Okay, so we have a strategic partner Guide On Education. Okay, and Ashley's great and she's also a service-disabled veteran in a small business, okay. And if it's training, we're asking, okay, is it internal onboarding, company culture type training, or is it client education or customer?
Speaker 2:education.
Speaker 1:So blending some coaching skills with that and making sure that the learning outcomes, similar to the KPIs for the, you know the sales business metrics. We're asking how do we want people to feel, what do we want them to know and how can we prove it so that comprehension is solved for in your training modules.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so you work with workforce government, anybody else?
Speaker 1:Education, education, okay, field institute for the recording arts okay, and they've been around since the 60s as a production studio okay, but they also have a school, yeah, and they do audio video and technical training for, okay, uh, industry certification yeah so worked with a number of, um uh, different academic institutions, both online and in a person, like the catholic high school of baltimore is another example. Yeah, but uh, in a way, that's workforce development, right, you're educating people. Institutions both online and in person, like the Catholic High School of Baltimore is another example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but in a way that's workforce development. Right, You're educating people to be able to accept and apply for the jobs and careers that they want. Yeah, but then getting actually to the recruiters themselves and being able to save them time and make their lives easier.
Speaker 3:That will be just a better experience for the candidate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. That will be just a better experience for the candidate.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, that's cool. And what made you decide just as I'm more asking this question as you're a business owner what made you decide to go into those fields? Is it because of a comfort thing that you already knew some people? Because I think a lot of our listeners are entrepreneurs and oftentimes you try to figure out like well, who do you serve? And I think with video, I think at the beginning it's like well, I could do it for everybody.
Speaker 1:Right, I can point this camera at me and record it and give it to you.
Speaker 2:I could do it, but why did you choose that?
Speaker 1:Oh, such a good question.
Speaker 1:It really comes down to trust and the base level trust in the military community is one of the biggest advantages and differentiators that I've had being a Marine Corps veteran, being in the space and accepting that there are a massive population of military veterans, more so than active duty. People don't realize that the military is pretty big but the number of people that were in the military is way bigger and that is just a common ground level of trust that has already been built by nature of serving in the military. That is not a barrier for networking. So I started going out into Washington Mm-hmm, and that sounds really nerdy, but trends and patterns to say like, what are people in this space focused on? And it always came back to the veteran community and how can we help a nonprofit function. But we did career development conventions and personal branding for like, transitioning military and spouses if they're married to a service member, because that service member is being moved around across right, right, right and that yeah, that spouse is uprooting their career and starting fresh every two years.
Speaker 1:Wow, the entire duration, yeah, of that enlistment. So there's a huge need for that and there's a huge need for people to be able to communicate their value to employers yeah, and likewise, employers stand just as much to gain by being able to commute their value to employers. Yeah, and likewise, employers stand just as much to gain by being able to commute their value, communicate their value to, um, a population of candidates, yeah, yeah. So it's that interchange that I just really started to study and see that it's still humans talking to humans yeah, yeah right, that's, that's something that's not going to change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, b to b, b to c, b to g is always human to human. Yeah, um, and that was a catalyst that that made me go into coaching. So, yeah, I got a dual certification um for life and health coaching. Okay, for my own well-being, for my own self-care, but also to understand what really motivates people to do things.
Speaker 1:And I justified it. To say like this will help my interview practice. I'll be able to understand buyer psychology in the hiring space. Because what happens whenever you're looking for a job? Your Maslow hierarchy of needs is being threatened in every way Right, and that's such a stressful time for people that are in the job search.
Speaker 1:The longer it goes you know you try to figure out, man, how long do I got? It's exactly. It's compounding stress. You're, you're, you know, challenged in every way and that's often the mindset and the disposition that you're in for an interview and being, you know, having the stakes as high as they can be your livelihood, your ability to protect your family and your ability to just, you know, be in society. It's like that is what is on the line in this interaction, in representing yourself, in building your personal brand and applying for that job. So I took it very personally, because I was in that situation, getting out of the Marine Corps, and my, my way of paying it forward and continuing to serve is just helping empower those individuals who are in that situation and helping the recruiters meet them where they are.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so it's super man, you dropped. You dropped a lot of different things. Uh, and I'm going to just really quick, just highlight a couple of things, because one you know, when I work with a lot of different people over the years and oftentimes you have people over the years and oftentimes you have what you do needs to solve a problem and when I asked you that question about like, who did you serve, how'd you come, how'd you come to that, not only did you tell me why you know that was, but you also gave me what the pain is. You know, I think people, you know a lot of entrepreneurs sometimes they just want to do stuff and they think that the market wants this, but they don't. You have to solve a problem, you have to solve a pain point. Now the cool thing is.
Speaker 4:The second piece I want to highlight also is that you dove really into your own personal brand of who you are and your own uniqueness and your lived experiences and you use that to your advantage, which you should, which you should I mean you you take what you know God has given you, take what path that you've been going on and you use that to your advantage. And you know, you know that market. Now you went deeper and discovered more of why and what the pain points are to be to better serve that market, and you also have a story to tell. Every single time you meet a potential client, you have a direct connection and something that's relatable to them, that you can have that good, you know story time almost in the conversation, and then be able to take that into being like, yeah, I'm, I'm your choice, I'm your choice, I'm your choice.
Speaker 4:For this we already. We're right here, man, we're right here. Why would you go anywhere else? And that's what makes it so important. So I think you know, for for everybody, watching and listening like that is just so important when it comes down to understanding what, like who, you're serving and using your own uniqueness, your own personal brand, to elevate what you do as a business owner. I think it's just so powerful. You know cause you could have went in any direction, just cause you were in the military. It doesn't mean everything has to be all about the military. It could, you could have done anything.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and just to be clear on that, I tried to do way more okay yeah, so I was like but but everybody does yes, yes, yeah, especially with video or like things that you're like hey, I could do, restaurants, I could do.
Speaker 1:I mean, I could do anything you know yep, and I had, like, I've done a number of different things and I and that was the objective as I was transitioning out and I was actually fortunate that it was during COVID, where I didn't, as a performing unit in the Marines, didn't have as much time or, I guess, as much responsibility at that job as I was transitioning out, because we weren't doing performances. We weren't doing performances.
Speaker 1:Right so that bought me some time to experiment. Yeah, and I ended up doing freelance gigs all over the place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I started. What was it? The Natural Products Association like doing just like corporate talking head videos. Yeah, I'm like ah, you know, I started collaborating with an agency that they're doing like more creative shoots and personal branding.
Speaker 1:Okay, yep, I worked with, like a dj um, I ended up being the gotcha remsen, yeah, I just like I ended up being the technical director for new york fashion week okay, it's like filming models and creating, like, uh, hybrid experiences for new york fashion weeks. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna whittle this down and narrow it down, and it always just kept leading back into the network that I had already been building and it just made it, just made sense.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's. Everybody goes through that transition. I mean, especially early, early days of the business, like when you start it, you're just like, oh man, because also like you're hungry and you you want to, you know, try out those shoots. Maybe it's something like hey, I never did this before, but it could be something I might be interested in. I don't know, I've never tried something like that. It could be a new challenge, you know, for a business owner.
Speaker 4:But also you need to put food on the table also, so you want to hustle, you want to get some things going, and so oftentimes you have to, like you have to, you know, figure out, you know what, like where your business is really going. I mean, it's, it's, everybody goes through it. And so and I I'm more to saying that also for the people watching and listening because don't feel discouraged if you're going through this moment right now. You know, like you know, even Jesse Jabbar, like we've, we've gone through these moments where you have to figure out who do you serve, and it's okay to have those experiences because also he can talk about those now, you know experiment.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, see what happens. Right, there's a, there's a risk. Everyone has a risk tolerance and everyone has a comfort zone and it's just playing with that. Right, one has a comfort zone and it's just playing with that. Right, seeing what happens, using, uh, whatever resources and time that you can spare to get real time, real life feedback, yeah, on what fills you up, what projects do you like working on what's paying the bills, and get into a rhythm of what's working, yeah, and just keep questioning that right, just Just like always be asking yourself is this growing me in a in the way that I want to grow?
Speaker 1:in Uh and that's that's it. It takes as long as it takes. It's a process.
Speaker 4:And and, and I'll just ask you this. Uh, one last quick question, cause I'm really, I'm really curious on it from the business standpoint. This is a oftentimes there's a lot of questions that I get From when you're just starting in a business. Obviously, pricing is always a challenge. You know, first of all you're hungry. You're just like, yeah, I'll do it for that, do it for that, do it for that. As you grow, as you know, you've said, hey, we're more coaching, consulting, we figure out what exactly do you need and then figure out what to apply to it. Obviously, now you're kind of have full packages and if it's campaigns, if it's different ways to work, how did your pricing like, how did you grow through pricing? You know, as far as you go through your business, because everybody goes through this and even they're still struggling, you know, even till this, because it's like, how do you price what you're worth but you don't want to lose the client? So what does that world look like for you?
Speaker 1:Great topic. Yeah, we can go on. So, yeah, it's a great question. So, at first, now I'm going to contextualize this. In the creative video videographer, right, you're trying to build a portfolio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this in the creative video videographer, right, You're trying to build a portfolio, you're trying to build evidence that you can do what you say you do and a lot of times the value of that is worth doing it for less than it's actually worth, because the value of that case study or that portfolio piece for you makes up for the fact that you might not have charged what that thing is actually worth to the client.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:In addition to that, you're also building referrals and testimonials in a network, which is why it's extra important to think about your niche and make sure that you have clarity, because you're going to start building a track record doing something, and however you can leverage that retroactively is dependent upon how clear you were before you started. Yeah, actively is dependent upon how clear you were before you started, and that's not saying you have to be absolutely perfect, but as you evolve and as you continue to do this, you are going to build a reputation as the type of person that does this. Yeah, and that is what people will know you for. And if you're not raising your prices and you're continuing to be the guy that will do it as cheap as possible, that's what will be spread. That that's what people are going to say. It's like they made this incredible thing for me and it was only how much yeah, yeah I gotta, I gotta, hook him up with this.
Speaker 1:So it's like you. You know you gotta be super selective with that and you know you also have to just ask the hard questions to the clients, and and that's why we're using a results-based, value-driven model yes, right, you know there's a book called Hourly Pricing is Insane. Yeah, yeah yeah, or something like that. It's like why should you be penalized for doing something more efficiently? Really well.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I'm a big fan of Chris Do.
Speaker 4:I was just about to say that.
Speaker 1:Chris Doe is the boy man. Yeah, and it's like if you dive onto that podcast you can go on deep dive.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, exactly this topic. So that's been super helpful and that's probably what I would say is just like do your research on how other people are figuring this out. But for me it's like it also is what do you actually need? So you start with what are my living expenses? What do I have to charge to continue doing this and prioritizing the longevity of your service over the quick win? Yeah Right, what do you really need to do? If you're actually helping people and you're solving a problem and there are people that are in pain that you can help them with, then you owe it to them to be able to sustain yourself for a longer period of time. You will help more people that way. So figure it out what it is that you need to do the thing for longer, charge that rate and then add extra because you're helping them put skin in the game and they're investing in their own solution. So I've done things for free and I've seen how people react and value those free things.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I've charged premiums. The exact same deliverable and people are in a different mindset whenever they are invested in the product, so take that for what it's worth. Experiment too.
Speaker 4:It's like see what the market responds to. Yeah, yeah, I think you covered a lot of different. For sure, for sure, ping pong and go back and forth on pricing it, because there's a science to it, there's an absolute science to it. And depending on where you're at, too, in your career, like if you're just starting, I always tell people do some stuff for free. If you have nothing, you got to do some free stuff because, like jesse said, you need a portfolio, you need something to. Hey, man, I got something to show you. You need to practice your craft and you need to practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I said, hey, man, I got, uh, I got something to show you. You need to practice your craft. And you need to practice, if I say, hey, man, I got, uh, I got nike, they want to do a huge, you know, commercial shoot you know, come through.
Speaker 1:You'd be like oh, how do I adjust the lens? Yeah, no, no, no, no, yeah, you don't want to have that risk. Oh man, yeah, get the reps in. You got to get the reps in.
Speaker 4:You got to get the reps in, do it for free and then build that portfolio. And I think you worded a lot of things perfectly right, from how to charge, what to charge, when to charge, how to package. What problem are you solving? What pain point I mean? It really comes down to just truly helping people, but also helping yourself. That's one thing that's golden, that you said help yourself, because you may not be in business that much longer If you continue on the track record that you're going, if you're charging 200 bucks for a premium shoot everywhere you go, like that's not sustainable, it's not sustainable. There's a, there's a funny video that's got this guy and he's like you know they're on. He's on the phone with a potential uh client and he's like hey, how much do you charge? It's like yeah, um, it'll be 200 for this. And he's like perfect. And then, and then it's like the sound goes um, and then he's like wait, wait, what do you wait? And then he's like and then the guy on the phone was like oh, this is great.
Speaker 2:Can you believe he's only charging 200? Uh, we had a budget for 1500 for this. This is great. The last guy charges three. Great, like, it's like, it's like. Please send that agreement over as fast as you can. I was like, wait, wait, wait, you can't backtrack. Nine said two. It's just a funny, it's a, it's a hilarious video.
Speaker 4:But it's like every, especially in the creative uh space, like we all go through this design production. I mean we all go through it, you know, because we're trying to figure out you know what like what are we worth? And it's not just the design or the production that you're charging for, it's the expertise, it's if you, like you said, you have a certain clientele that you serve. You know it through and through and you can literally give them results, even from the consultative approach to it, because they're also getting value that way. It's not just what you're delivering to them from the files, the media, it's also the how-to, which is oftentimes even more valuable than the media.
Speaker 4:You know because you're, you know giving direction to somebody, for if they could go this way or this way, if they went, you know, left, it's like, oh my God, that would cost a lot more, a lot more headaches, problems. But if you go this way and you get results and you've grown the business or you've helped your team understand a problem or saved on time, saved on money, so yeah, you've covered a lot of different points on it. I was just more curious about your journey with that because I know I've had tons of ups and downs when figuring out the pricing.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's been a struggle. Yeah, yeah figuring out the pricing. Yes, it's been. It's been a struggle. Yeah, that has been a struggle, and creative people have, like you said, an especially hard time with this, because you're supposed to love what we do and we're supposed to love helping people without expectation of return, and it's like you have to draw a line right there, like, okay, that's all well and good, you can be fulfilled, you can help people, but if you're serious about helping people long-term, you need to protect the asset right.
Speaker 1:You need to take care of yourself first. Right Put on your oxygen mask before helping others. It's not going to be any good to anyone if you go out of business. Just look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 4:Yeah, look at the bigger picture. So I got to ask. This next segment is sponsored by Visit Milwaukee.
Speaker 3:Immerse yourself in a place where bold ideas are sought after, where all are encouraged to bring their personal flourish here. Innovation is a way of life In this city. The beat flows Together. We're dancing to the rhythm forward. Now it's your turn to grab hold of that energy. Well, you'll remember not just the meals, the celebrations or the uncommon coasts. What you'll remember is how we made you feel. Come experience Milwaukee, where fresh meets fearless every day.
Speaker 4:Have you ever been to?
Speaker 1:Milwaukee. Oh, I think I might have toured through briefly. While I was in a drum corps, we toured the United States performing drums Okay, but I regrettably haven't the United States performing drums Okay, but I regrettably haven't spent any significant time there.
Speaker 4:Okay, what do you remember? Do you remember anything about Milwaukee at all there?
Speaker 1:Man, I was in a different universe. You were at a different time, right? I remember the football field. Okay, yeah, I remember the football field that I was at.
Speaker 4:Did you go to Lambeau?
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 4:where you went. Oh, I wish I could remember the agreement packers played.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, it wasn't oh okay, okay, I, I knew I remember that was that's like kind of an important um highlight, yeah, yeah, of the city in the area. But yeah, uh, but no, like I said, okay, rolled through in an evening, yeah, and we're out the next day yeah, it's often like, uh, like music.
Speaker 4:you know, like you, a city, you don't really get to explore much, you don't really get to see much. You do your thing, you're out.
Speaker 1:So what should I have seen while I was in Milwaukee?
Speaker 4:I mean there's tons of stuff in Milwaukee. I mean the food is incredible, especially if you go in the summer and fall, that's like the best time, Best time to go. But I feel like you know Milwaukee is that kind of slept on city where it's like a little Chicago. So you know, imagine that in your head. You know it's like a little Chicago, got great food, good vibes, good energy, especially in summer and fall. Tons of like boating, outdoor stuff. People love their boats, love going out on the river or on the lakes because it's got the Great Lakes up there. So there's like tons of stuff to do up there. Um, and then just the entertainment man, now they got the. The arena, deer district. I mean downtown is like it's popping. Now it's not like this factory industrial.
Speaker 4:You know, like that's not the only thing that's there in the town, like back in, like you know, maybe 20 years ago, like that's all milwaukee was really known for, but there's been a lot of development. So obviously, if you're ever in the area of Milwaukee and I'm also there I would love to, you know, give you a tour of the place and, just, you know, make sure you have a good visit, you know.
Speaker 1:That's important.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's important for tourism and knowing what's there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've been to Chicago, so if it does have that same feel as Chicago. That's a great comparison.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because it's like that Midwest vibe. It's just got that Midwest charm to it. But there's definitely a lot of developments and good things that happen and there's so many festivals. Festivals there's always events that are going on almost every day. It seems like's german fest, irish fest, african fest, I mean summer fest.
Speaker 1:there's and you have a studio there and I got a studio there, yeah, yeah, and that's a relatively recent thing, right, is that last? Yeah, that was last year.
Speaker 4:yeah, well, I just got tired of like going different places and like we had just equipment just sitting there. And so I'm like let's do something with this man. Like let's, let's, let's use our space. Like we have the office space already. I'm like let's outfit a space that we always can record content and and also help launch podcasts and and do stuff. So yeah, that was that was a venture. And do stuff. So yeah, that was that was a venture. It's still up, it's still running. Um. Actually, in a couple of weeks we're going to Milwaukee.
Speaker 4:I got to do a ton of filming, um, you know, for that, a lot of clients want to use it. It's more on a reservation basis. Only now, you know, because at a time we were going to do it, like you know, you could book now and come in tomorrow, Um, but that's when we had kind of a, a smaller team that was there, and now we just do it reservation project only, Um, and and really just more about meeting their goals. Like we'll do the occasional one-off if somebody just wants to use the studio for a little bit of time. But really, like, what are you trying to do? You know, like, is it a podcast. Is it a podcast? Is it a social media content Like what are you trying to do with this space and let's help you get there? Love it, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think we're kindred spirits in that regard, where it's definitely nice when the clients can come to you. Yes, yeah, it's like, if it makes sense, we have all the gear and it stays here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like optimized and dialed in yes. Optimized and dialed in yes, like that's just a breakdown setup breakdown, yeah, that's just such a lower barrier of entry and risk to the client, knowing that, like they have done this many times in this exact configuration, yeah and yeah, and. If it wouldn't make, if it makes sense for their goals, it's great to have a place to host yeah there, so yeah love that, love that you have this, yeah yeah, and it's fun too.
Speaker 4:I as a as the creative person in me, I like I love setting it up, you know, just creating that space. Um, I'm not also the interior designer, but I did kind of pick out some of the furniture and stuff, but I definitely had help.
Speaker 1:Well, I I've seen a few videos and I think was it Jeff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, jeff, yeah Wallner, yeah we also met. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Jeff, he's a boy too. Yeah, it's like the first time I saw it was that conversation. I was like I know these guys. Yeah, yeah, the studio looks awesome. You guys do great work, thank you, and just from what I've seen from videos, this is a top notch operator.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it's cool, it's good to be in there. I bet, yeah, yeah, well, whenever you're in town, um, let me know. And uh, yeah, so it's been fantastic having you on the pod man. Um, where can people find you? How can they get connected? Same as you, linkedin is the best way.
Speaker 1:And uh see studioscom. If you're interested just to learn more about what we do, how we do it, we're very open-minded to that. But if you are in workforce development especially, we'd be delighted to have a conversation. But I have an Instagram that's more of like my fun personal stuff. That's just Jesse underscore Seaf, s-i-e-f-f.
Speaker 4:But LinkedIn is where I'm focused on having productive conversations with the most people, and is that where you're getting most of your business from? Is it LinkedIn or how do you where's like your best channel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so LinkedIn is our best channel. I would probably say it's matched by in-person networking events.
Speaker 4:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Geographically we're very fortunate here in the DMV area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, in Annapolis. They're right there.
Speaker 1:Distant between Baltimore, washington DC, northern Virginia. So with all of the agencies and military installations and just companies, there's a high density of people that are in our target market. So I make a point to physically go out and network meet people, shake their hands, and that is a fast track to just building trust and rapport. And then the follow-up is on LinkedIn. Okay, and still it's like, yeah, we have campaigns running for LinkedIn outreach and cold email outreach, you know, testing those channels and seeing viability. But yeah, linkedin is great at staying organized with the people that are in your network too, so it's great for many reasons.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, that's cool, that's cool. I always ask that question to others because oftentimes people are like hey, where, where do you find business? And so by going to those networking events you're, you're literally trying to change your circle every single time and just get next to people and have that in-person connection, which is so, so powerful.
Speaker 1:And LinkedIn is a CRM. Yeah, if you really think about what it does client relationship or customer relationship management. There you go yeah, you have a profile, you have a picture, you have their name and a way to contact them Right, and you have the incredible advantage of sharing your own stuff, yeah, being transparent and putting your stuff out there. So, yeah, I'm a big fan of that platform.
Speaker 4:Awesome. So, if you're hearing this, get on LinkedIn, start posting content, start being about it, because, man, you could meet some incredible people. Thank you so much, jesse, for being on the podcast. If you're listening and watching, please like, comment, subscribe on all the places we're streaming everywhere. Definitely, get in touch with Jesse. If you've heard anything and you want to take the conversation to the next step, reach out to him on LinkedIn and get involved. I mean, just reach out and start that conversation. I always tell every single time you can't change a circle if you're just sitting there and not doing nothing. It takes action. It takes action. So reach out to every single guest I have on here is reachable, so reach out to them and don't think that there's some person in the space or like oh man, they're so far out.
Speaker 4:Like I can never talk to this person. I can't reach them. It's like reach out and especially if you, if you want some insight, if you want to have a great conversation, if you want him to come into your business and help um get your brand to the next level, reach out to him.
Speaker 1:Jamar. Thank you, my friend, this has been great.
Speaker 4:Awesome man. Thank you, Till the next time, Peace. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget you can change your circle to change your life you.
