The Foureva Podcast
Welcome to The Foureva Podcast, where we break barriers and redefine success!
Join host Jamar Jones, a dynamic entrepreneur, national speaker, and author of "Change Your Circle, Change Your Life," as he takes you on an extraordinary journey of inspiration and motivation.
In each episode, we bring you an impressive lineup of star-studded guests, each with a unique voice and a wealth of insights to share. From industry leaders to renowned experts, we uncover their secrets to success in personal, business, and marketing domains. Prepare to be captivated by their stories, strategies, and experiences that will empower you to reach new heights.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a marketing professional, or simply seeking fresh perspectives on life and business, The Foureva Podcast is your ultimate destination. Discover the transformative power of changing your circle and unlocking your full potential. With each episode, we delve into the minds of the most influential voices in the industry, providing you with the tools and inspiration you need to overcome obstacles and achieve greatness.
Don't miss out on this dynamic podcast that will fuel your ambition, challenge your limits, and propel you toward success. Tune in to The Foureva Podcast and join a community of driven individuals who are ready to make an impact. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and 'foureva' transformed!
The Foureva Podcast
Secrets you didn't know to scale and grow the business as a leader w/ Ben Eden
Want to grow your business, attract high-value clients, and build real leadership skills? In this episode, Jamar Jones sits down with executive coach and business consultant Ben Eden to share powerful entrepreneurship, leadership, and personal growth strategies.
Ben helps business owners, CEOs, and high achievers break through self-doubt, scale their businesses, and master mindset shifts for long-term success. He’s also a keynote speaker who’s landed major public speaking gigs—including on cruise ships—and built a thriving coaching business.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ How to grow your business without burnout
✅ The mindset shift that separates struggling entrepreneurs from thriving CEOs
✅ How to land paid speaking gigs and get booked on big stages
✅ Why most leaders sabotage their teams (and how to fix it)
✅ How to price your coaching or consulting services with confidence
✅ The hidden emotional barriers that hold high achievers back
Ben also shares his personal journey from corporate executive to successful coach and keynote speaker, and how he overcame self-doubt and imposter syndrome to build a business that aligns with his purpose.
🚀 If you’re an entrepreneur, speaker, coach, or business owner looking to scale, this episode is packed with actionable insights.
🔔 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and turn on notifications for more expert interviews on business growth, personal branding, leadership, and public speaking success!
Using the mind in the proper way instead of living in the fears oh, what if? What if? What if? You say, let me act as if it already happened the way I wanted to. I see myself as a successful public speaker. What does that mean? I see people laughing, smiling, appreciating what I'm saying. I'm making the impact. People come up to me afterwards and say thank you, and then I live in that emotion on stage, already knowing that it happens, and people feel that that makes a successful public speaker.
Speaker 2:We did it. We did it, man. Well, I'm super excited to have you on the podcast, man, we're going to jump straight into the conversation. I got tons and tons of questions from our first encounter, so first of all, just let people know who you are and what you do.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, jamar. Thank you for having me and a quick intro. My name is Ben Eden. I am a business consultant and executive coach, so helping people on two different levels. Okay, people who have been successful in the corporate environment, who now have gotten out and doing their entrepreneur gig. But then they realize, oh, there's a lot of things I don't know and they're looking to make the money. They have some extra time All the way to the other side, where it's an established business owner who's been successful. They have the money, but now they're looking for that extra time.
Speaker 2:And I help on both those sections, yeah, yeah, and also talk also a little bit about just you as a speaker and the things. What do you have going on right now? Give us a little bit of a window inside Ben's world.
Speaker 1:Sure, so I'll start with some business stuff and then I'll tell a little bit of family. But so some exciting things that I have going on in the speaking world. I'm speaking on a cruise ship in February. That'll be cool.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've never spoken on a cruise ship, never.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I have as an executive. I spoke on a cruise ship as an executive, so that was fun, but now I'm the opening keynote speaker of this one, so that'll be fun. Nice Congrats, yeah. And then I'm speaking at a couple of nonprofit or smaller organizations locally and then I'm speaking at a National Golf Course Superintendent Association in San Diego also in February. So that's going to be a fun month.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. Do you get to enjoy yourself on the cruise one, or is it straight business?
Speaker 1:Like they basically put you on that ship and then you got to leave. Oh no, so I'm the opening keynote right. So day one I get it done with, and then the rest of the time they do encourage me to attend the other speeches and I enjoy that. But I of the time they do encourage me to attend the other speeches and I enjoy that, but I'm also bringing my wife.
Speaker 2:So for the rest of the trip we're just gonna have a good you know oh my god, what a perk. Yeah, what a perk, man. Holy crap, holy crap. And uh, let me share this.
Speaker 1:okay, this is manifesting. Okay, when I first became a speaker, people are like, hey, you could speak on cruise ships. I was like, oh, wouldn't that be cool? I love going on cruises, and then it would be paid for and everything else. So I manifested it. And no, it didn't happen immediately, in fact, this year I had applied two years ago, okay, and didn't really hear anything back. But this year the director of the cruise, he found me and he said, hey, we want you to speak. I'm like you do know what I speak about, right, because I've changed some things over the time. And he's like, yeah, this is what we want. We want you to be our opening keynote speaker. I'm like, all right, sometimes you got to be patient, but manifest and it'll work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, wow. And how long have you been speaking? How many years?
Speaker 1:So professionally full time since February of 2020. So professionally full time since February of 2020. And then I spoke as an executive inside the company for about seven years. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you definitely like you're a polished speaker like you. You know this is this is many reps to get to get to get on the cruise ship. So for people listening and watching with speaking, in particular, you want to make sure you get your reps. You know you get your, like, if you're just starting as a speaker. Somebody literally just asked in a private group chat that I'm in like, hey, I'm trying to get more speaking engagements Like, what do I? What do I do? I'm like you got to invest in you first and get the reps in.
Speaker 2:If you don't have a lot of reps, like, go out and speak for free. Um, but that's really to invest in yourself to get to get actual things that you need, like, which is social proof. You need reps of you doing the repetition of of you speaking, but you also need uh, uh testimonials. You need pictures. You need uh, uh testimonials. You need pictures. You need uh video. You need you need to get the reps out there and let people know that you actually do this. Um, to get to where Ben is talking about to be speaking on cruise ships. This is, this is how it is. So how do you, how do you get uh speaking engagements uh today. Like uh, is this a normal thing for you to be on cruise ships? Like what, how do you get speaking gigs now?
Speaker 1:So I'll say it's the phase of speaking. Okay, and I'll tell two sides again. One is what I did in April of this year. I, you know, I wrote a book last November and I was starting to develop a new speech to be related to the book and I was like, wow, I got to practice this and make sure it lands well and that it resonates with people. And so, about April of this year, I just started reaching out to all the people I knew hey, do you have any associations, networks, meetings, anything that I can speak at, even if it is, for, you know, no costs, free, right, right? Then I could speak about the book and oftentimes they bought the book. So you know, there was something on the back end.
Speaker 1:But, to your point, it's also the practice, sometimes the video footage, the confidence that comes with practicing that conversation. So, yeah, I had a few in April and that was one way to just, okay, practice and get the word out. And then it starts to have a trickle effect, because you're normally talking to somebody relatively influential in that association, then you speak to the group and now that whole group has heard you and then you just say, all right, who else do you know, and it starts to trickle into other opportunities. So that's one side, is just the practicing, and then the other is, yes, you need to have, let's say, some social proof, right? So it's a balance of who knows that you speak and who knows what you speak about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly Exactly, and I oftentimes tell people about that connection, like your actual inner circle of who you already are connected to is where you start, but they need to know what you're looking for. So you got to go and ask them, like Ben, that was perfect advice. As far as going out and telling people, I'm looking for this. I'm a speaker and I'm trying to be on stages. So do you know any associations? Do you know any organizations? Do you know any people throwing a private party? Do you know people throwing a private event or anything to get me in front of a group, I don't care if it's three or three hundred or three thousand. I need to be in front of people and that is.
Speaker 2:And a lot of times people get in their own heads when they talk, when they try to get into speaking. That's why we're we're we're on this for a second, because you want to prepare all this stuff. Yes, you're not going to kill it out the gate unless that's just like you know, like I don't know, there's probably such a small percentage of people that just kill it out the gate. I was comfortable on stage as a hip hop artist in my in my former, former days. I was comfortable stage. But speaking is a different game, yeah, you know, than having the beat and the mic kind of carry you and all you got to do is just say the lyrics and that's it. I mean, speaking is a little bit different. And you have a book called how we See Ourselves and I want to talk a little bit on that. Tell me a little bit about the book and also how has that book really impacted you and your career?
Speaker 1:Okay, great question and good segue. So I'm going to actually apply this to the public speakers because, hey, that's our subject of right now. Right, yeah. So the book was written specifically to high achievers. What that means is somebody who has a history of success, probably an, a student, probably a great performer at work, really used to just having good results. But at the same time, they are very self-critical. Hey, you got the A, yeah, but I could have gotten the A plus. Hey, you really excelled at that project, yeah, but I missed that data point on the spreadsheet, you know. And then they're the director or above, and everybody's looking at them and saying, wow, that's so awesome, how well you're doing at work, yeah, but I'm not here yet. So they're having that internal conversation and they wonder why they're not happy, because they're chasing success while being successful, if that makes sense. So that's who the book is written to.
Speaker 1:Then, how it applies to public speaking. Let's say, a lot of people have the capability of being a public speaker, but, to your point, we get stuck in our head oh, what if I don't say the right thing? I have to practice and practice, and practice, and practice. Sometimes practice is helpful, but sometimes it's like, okay, you practice enough, just go, do it. You know, right, right. And so what it comes down to is you want to have a good result, you want to have people like it, you want to get paid, whatever your result is. If you want to feel good, if you want to make an impact, share your story A lot of reasons why you could be a public speaker.
Speaker 1:So you try, you put forth all this effort, you make the phone calls. Sometimes it sucks, you get a lot of no's, you get a lot of ghosting and then you're like I just don't. Somebody taught me about manifesting. I manifested 5,000 people and I had one right. No, it's like, I don't know. I did all this prep. Nobody showed up. So again it's like is this worth it? And you have these thoughts in your head, but I designed this model and I don't know if I'll go through all the details here, but this model is in my book. It's a good. So you start with results and we go through all these other things and we get confused Because I'm sorry, there you go, now I'm good, because we don't go deep enough for the identity. You know some people call it limiting beliefs and that's close, but ultimately, it comes down to how we define ourselves. So you, jamar, at the beginning you said you know what hip hop I got? It? I'm awesome, you know this is fun.
Speaker 1:I know how it works when people talk about me and when people see me as a hip hop guy awesome but as a public speaker, I just don't know. And that shows up in your performance. That's the same with most people, because we hear all the stories and you know, one of the biggest fears is to be a public speaker, to be on stage. Why, I don't know. It's like when you go to a forest Well, it's bear country. Yes, you have to be careful, but how likely is it that you're going to see a bear? Not very, hopefully, not likely. Yeah, yeah. So if you live in fear, you're going to have a miserable camp out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Public speaking Sorry, it is again getting down to manifesting, or the power of using the mind in the proper way, instead of living in the fears. Oh, what if? What if? What if? You say let me act as if it already happened the way I wanted to? I see myself as a successful public speaker. What does that mean? I see people laughing, smiling, appreciating what I'm saying, I'm making the impact. People come up to me afterwards and say thank you, and then I live in that emotion on stage, already knowing that it happens, and people feel that that makes it a successful public speaker.
Speaker 2:So a lot of what you're talking about, too. It starts with it's the mindset around yourself and your identity, but it's also the confidence to go out and just do what you want to like, do what you do best. But you have to have the confidence to go on that stage. You have to have confidence to push through on something that you're maybe just discovering it and oftentimes, for for that confidence to happen, you have to have repetition. That builds confidence.
Speaker 2:You know, um the reason why this is. You know, um, decade plus ago, as far as that was in in hip-hop, but I was so confident there because I had I had years of experience and also I started to actually get a track record. I started building an audience, I started to open up for major artists. I started to like there was there's a point where I'm like I know this and it's working. And then, when I went to the public speaking space, it was like I know how to command the stage, but I don't know how to do it with everybody staring at me and it's silence, and I got no beat in the background to do this.
Speaker 2:Now, how I got into it was honestly by studying really close to a decade of speakers that we worked with on the media side. So we work with speakers and I've seen speakers kill the stage and then I had side conversations and so, through that network that you were talking about, it built that confidence up. So by the time I was, I was ready to go out. I already had so much training you know around what I needed to do to get me to to go out there but I definitely had to hone in on that identity for myself and switch that mindset to your point as far as really figuring out how I really see myself in this particular moment to go out on stage, and so I think that's super powerful. And what has the book done for you and your career and your business? Now that, like you said, even with certain gigs, they buy X amount of books or they're a part of it, what has that done for your business?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great question, and I'm going to comment on something you said and then get to your question. I'm thinking of my kids, where we recently went to a theme park with roller coasters, right recently went to a theme park with roller coasters, right, and my eight-year-old daughter she's now tall enough that she can ride the big roller coasters, but there's that element of that looks scary, you know it's, it's terrifying. People are screaming I just don't know if I want to do that. And so she spends a few minutes contemplating and worrying and going through the anxiety of I just don't know if I want to do that. And she goes close and says, dad, I don't know if I want to do that. And she goes close and, dad, I don't really want to. And she has that whole conversation experience. Then she finally gets on with me and her brothers and she loves it, right, she's oh, that was so cool, let's go again. Like, wait a minute, two minutes ago you, I had to convince you to get back on or to get on in the first place, and now she wants to jump back on.
Speaker 1:And so, to your point, the more experience we. Then we can look back and we say, hey, I survived that and I can survive it again. And that prepares us for bigger levels. You might think there's no way I could speak to 5,000 people. I could do five. Okay, so do five and then do 15, then do 50, 500 and so on and so forth. Because, yes, the experiences grow, just like building a brick house, brick by brick by brick, and eventually have a wall, eventually have a beautiful home. And people say how did you do that? Brick by brick? Same way you would. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so to the book.
Speaker 1:It is true what they say it's like a giant business card and it is amazing how people view this giant business card. In fact, I was given the advice that I should carry my book around everywhere I go to networking meetings and let me tell you, at first I thought it was a little pompous of me. It's like, yeah, just bringing a book around trying to sell it, you know Right. Then I'll comment on one other thing real quick. I first co-authored a book. I did one of those anthology things back in March of 2020. That was one of my first speaking gigs, right the weekend that everything shut down for the pandemic, to the point where I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get home. But so the speakers all combined and said why don't we write a book together? And I was the first chapter. So that's cool.
Speaker 1:But I still had a little bit of hesitancy to take pride in that book because people like said, hey, did you write a book? Like, kind of, I did write the first chapter. You know I had these conversations. I struggled to own it, but with practice I said yes, I do have a book and I put it behind me on a shelf and people said there's your book in there and I sold quite a few of them. And when I spoke and I said, yeah, I have a book, people bought it. Cool. Then I had an ebook and people like, wow, that's on Amazon, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:And again some hesitancies, but people seeing it and it built me to the level of when I published this book, I was ready to own it. Yes, I published a book. Yes, I'm an author, yes, I wrote the book and that brings confidence. And then it's cool because author is short for authority and so people see you as an authority on this subject. Okay, Because, yes, I've done the research, yes, I've lived the experience. So when people say he has a book and this is what it's about and he's a speaker, let's bring him in because it is an added concrete level of credibility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah for sure. Like it's a book is, is transformative, like it just has that prestige to it. Prestige to it, you know, often, oftentimes, I I talk to a lot of authors and they tell me like the percentage of people that actually read the book is super low. You know, like, like they'll, they'll. Like I love it when, when, as an author, that you get people that actually have read the book and they have that feedback, like I feel like that's a super amazing moment.
Speaker 2:But there's a lot of people that will literally just look at the cover, know that you have a book by the book and it sits there because they don't take. It's not the author, is they don't take action to read the book, right, but it's just that it's just that essence of having a book, of that ultimate business card, uh, to go into rooms because it shows that you took a lot of time and energy and effort to put out something and you had the guts to go out there and say this is what I believe and it's written, it's on Amazon, it's there, it's published, like I ain't never going back, you can't take it off the shelves. If somebody bought it, it's out there.
Speaker 1:Yep, right, yeah, and let me share something to that point. Okay, I'll do a little teaser here, but this is the book. Chapter one is literally one line. Here's what it says. Apparently, less than 10% of people read past the first chapter of the book and then, so that's an immediate win. Guess what? Chapter two is about Celebrating your wins. Okay, so it's literally a coaching technique that I use for public speaking, for business, whatever it is. You took your first step. You called celebrate, you know?
Speaker 2:That's crazy. That's crazy. Oh man, my, uh, my camera went out. We'll bring it back, we'll bring it back. So that's just. That's absolutely crazy, what's so? Talk to us a little bit about if you were to step foot into a business as I can get my camera going for people that are watching. If you were to step foot in a business and let's say I have a few team members that are a part of my leadership team, right, and let's say I have let's give you some context. We're going to do a little bit of like a scenario play. Let's say you have a business that's doing about of facilitate and manage a couple areas of your business. What are some key elements and factors that you, that we, should look for in that manager role or in that leadership role to help our business grow and get to that next level of seven figures? You know, and and and beyond that.
Speaker 1:Wow, good question. This is a deep question. I will give you some answers that definitely work, but of course it depends on the actual situation, right?
Speaker 2:Of course, of course.
Speaker 1:We'll talk principles and then, if we want to get more specific, we can. Does that sound good? Yeah, awesome. So first we have to understand that there are different levels of leadership that work. If we're beginning and if we're at 500,000, cool, how many are we right now? Is it an individual contributor that just made it happen with some good systems, Okay? Or how many employees are there already? Let me ask that question. In this scenario hypothetical right how many employees are there already?
Speaker 2:Let me ask that question in this scenario hypothetical right how many employees does the person already have? Yeah, let's say two. Actually, let's say two employees and then a number of contractors as well that they work with All right and now wants to have some leadership.
Speaker 1:To do what?
Speaker 2:To manage a few of their so their sales, and then also a little bit on the operations side.
Speaker 1:Okay, so would they be managing these two current employees or would they be building a?
Speaker 2:new department. They would be managing the current employees and contractors.
Speaker 1:Awesome, all right. So again, these questions are questions I would ask an actual business owner. Why? Because you could possibly promote somebody you already have or you could find somebody external. Right, it's the principle of buy or build, and I talk about that in the book. Do you buy or build? And it depends on cost and timing and fit and all sorts of things, but one big, big, big, and I'm passionate about this one. Okay, I'm literally designing some leadership development programs right now to address this.
Speaker 1:Too many many people and I get it sometimes it's just I don't know any other option but too often companies hire a top performer as an individual contributor, in other words, one of these two employees hey, you're doing a great job, you're great at this process thing. You really understand the company. We're going to promote you to take us to the next level. Well, guess what? One maybe they don't want leadership. Two, maybe they're great at what they do, and there's a reason why they're great at what they do and they're not going to be great as a leader, and that's okay. No, not everybody has to be put in a leadership position, okay, and then otherwise it's like okay, being a leader is a different skillset than being an individual contributor. Doing door-to-door sales is different than managing the door-to-door salesman Very different. Okay, you can rock it, you can be the highest sales guy. Then you're a manager and you're like, hmm, what I was doing is different than what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1:So how is this happening? And then what it comes down to is what my book's about. How do I see myself? So it's like, ah, what I was doing now isn't working. I've tried it and tried it and tried it. Now I just see a little bit more failure. Why is it me? That's the ultimate question. And then, am I cut out for this leadership business? So that's one scenario. But again back to the business owner. All right, if we first ask the right questions, that can get us the right answers. And part of this is am I going to promote? Am I going to look external? But what am I ultimately looking for? Am I looking for somebody to figure it out for me, say, look, here's the vision, you do it, or do I need somebody to execute my vision?
Speaker 1:Big difference to execute my vision. Big difference? Yeah, right, and so that's a true need, because if you want to hire somebody to figure it out, you have to be okay with them saying, hey, here's what I've done or here's what I'm going to do. But I have is this experience where the owner wanted somebody to figure it out, but they didn't want them to come up with their own ideas, and that doesn't work.
Speaker 2:It doesn't work at all.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You want me to have ideas, but you don't want to listen to my ideas? Okay, and then you want to let your leaders leave, right, right. So the business owner really has to have their clear vision and map it out on how they want it done. Do they want to have their hands in everything? And maybe that's okay because it's a stage of growth? Okay, there's a little bit of I'll use the word micromanaging. Sometimes that idea is needed because you need to be in the details, but it's a level or stage of management. It cannot last forever, otherwise your good leaders will leave because they don't like being micromanaged.
Speaker 2:Right, how long? How long do? How long do you give a leader to show your results Like how, how long do you like in your experience? What's? How long do you give somebody like as far as to to go into that role and try to succeed?
Speaker 1:yeah. So here's again. I'll start with the principal. And I was talking to a fellow leadership guy a couple weeks ago and he he was just kind of upset but also just had to laugh where he said you know what? I'm gonna hire somebody on a trial basis. I'm gonna see if they can do the job like really, you're gonna set them up to fail. You're gonna see if they can do the job Like really, you're going to set them up to fail. You're going to see if they pass your bar. Really, why not set them up for success and say hey, we had an interview, we talked, you evaluated me, I evaluated you.
Speaker 1:If we feel like it's the great fit, then we have our goals that we agree upon and let's make it work together. I'm not going to send you to the wolves and hope you survive and if you don't, well, too bad for you. It wasn't my fault, you know, right, right. But if, instead, we clarify the vision and set a timeframe, if it's 90 days, 90 days has some magic to it In my opinion. From my HR executive experience, 90 days, all right, 90 days is a good way to see the true person. You can fake it for a while. You can have some good immediate results, but you got to know the fit 90 days.
Speaker 1:And then, if you can have a 12 month goal, say, look and start backwards. If I hire you today, here's what I'd like to see in 12 months. And if you agree upon that, awesome, then here's what. Here's the difference between I hope you succeed to. I will help you succeed. It's the feedback loop. Okay, it's 12 months later saying well, you failed, sorry. You meet, let's say, on a monthly basis. You can say, hey, how are you doing, how can I help you? What's working, what's not working, and have those conversations. That's not micromanaging, that's being involved so that the person is supported to execute your vision. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So what I'm hearing is it's really managing those expectations for the individual and making sure that both the communications on it's a two-way street. So you need to communicate out your expectations as as, as an owner, um, or as a leader of people that lead people. So you need to communicate that out of what those expectations are, set those benchmarks, um of if it's 90 days, 12, you know whatever that timetable is. And then you need to have goals and make sure that you're in alignment and have those conversations early and often sounds like you know for that feedback loop. And I think this is it's almost like any relationship right you want to make sure the expectation. Most relationships fail because the expectations were not clear on both sides.
Speaker 2:And that's why they fail in all areas of life, and so I think that's really good advice and also a really good reminder to a lot of owners and entrepreneurs that are listening and watching to make sure those expectations and, if they're and if they're not in place, start getting them in place. It sounds like like you should have done that yesterday, and so you need to carve out the time to to make that happen. What? What is so? Let's say that the expectations are in place, um, is there? Is there certain cues or things that we should be looking out for to make sure that the the goal is being met?
Speaker 1:yeah, let's just use some hypothetical numbers. All right, yeah, so you want to hire a leader to help with sales and operations? Cool. So, bringing in more money, but also having it have some sort of structure or system to make it scalable and sustainable right, that's your ultimate. So what does that look like? If you're at 500k right now? What do you want it to be in 12 months? Throw out a number. Let's say 750. 750. Okay. So 50% increase in 12 months, right? Okay, beautiful goal.
Speaker 1:So if you bring in a leader and you say, hey, here's our goal for the next 12 months, I want you to increase sales by 250 so that we have an annual revenue of 750. Awesome, that's a clear goal, cool. Then again, you have the decision here that says I will help you make it happen by. I need you to do this every month and I need you to report on this every month and I need you to blah, blah, blah. Right, I'm telling you what to do. That can be fine, or you'd say that's your goal. Do you know where to find me? Then I'll see you every month. You know some? Some established and and set communication. What's the word tempo, right? Yeah, okay. Musical terms right, frequency. There you go if yeah this is great.
Speaker 1:So I know you know what, I know the goal and I can figure it out however I want, but I also know where to find you if I need some help, some support. I have questions, whatever right. So right to your back to your question. How do I know if it's working? Well, ideally you have those monthly check-ins, all right, we know the goal. What's happened? Is it working? Are we learning? Are we trying, or is it we're just so?
Speaker 1:Six months later, it's like man, nothing has happened and I see no hope for the next six months. Right, you can see it. Right. The first month, don't expect it to be. I hired the right guy, I don't know. Again, it's a partnership.
Speaker 1:Month two, maybe month three, hopefully you've established and completed something relatively big. Maybe I changed the structure, maybe I retrained some people, maybe, relatively big. Maybe I changed the structure, maybe I retrained some people, maybe I implemented this. Whatever right, or at least I have a plan and I say yeah, now that I understand the company, speaking from the leader's perspective, now that I understand the company and I understand how you work as a business owner, here's my updated plan on how to achieve the 750.
Speaker 1:Because it's very possible that I could be at 700,000 right now, or because I came in with an expert opinion from the outside and I saw that things weren't working and I fixed it and maybe we're at four, 50 for a second. You know revenues down and at first the business owner who's not secure and doesn't have a clear vision could be like what the heck are you doing? You're ruining my business, pulling my revenue down. I hired you to raise revenue, not lower it. If you don't have that communication, there's a potential that you just fire them. But maybe if it's done properly, the person can say here's why we dropped 50, because we took out this customer who's just costing us way too much time.
Speaker 2:Yes, they brought us in revenue.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're a terrible long-term customer. Okay, now that they're gone, we have more time and more bandwidth to focus on this other element that it's going to take us to 800,000. Does that make?
Speaker 2:sense, gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it definitely sounds like there's a push and pull to kind of the relationship between you and your leadership and you can't be so quick to just ex-cubicado these people. And also it's about the level of understanding Like, what are you? Yes, you may dip for a potential gain because they may have had a great idea or uncovered something that wasn't technically revenue producing in the moment, but it was something that you needed to do to actually obtain the growth that you needed, which I feel like is really really great advice you know for. And so when, what's the most like from the workshops you've done, the speaking in this leadership space, what is the most like common thing that you've seen across the board in leadership? Like period, it doesn't matter what size of the company is. What is the number one thing that you've seen across the board in leadership? Like it doesn't matter what size of the company is. What is the number one thing that you've seen time and time again?
Speaker 1:You know, I'd have to say communication as far as what you can see, right, if the manager is not talking to the employee, there's a disconnect, and then, of course, the expectations are not going to line up, and then, of of course, the expectations are not going to line up and then of course, the results are not going to line up and of course there's going to be some of this going on right, and the reason why communication doesn't exist how it should is because of what's going on here, the communication in here, right, and we could go way deep into that, but ultimately it's like okay, well, I don't see the results, but I don't want to have a hard conversation. I don't know if I want to ask why. I already addressed this. I just want to trust him.
Speaker 1:You know, whatever the conversation is, and that's where, as leader or as a you know a consultant who teaches it, then we establish some systems and it's not a one-size-fits-all. But if, for example, you just have some patterns or some models to follow that says, here's how I can check in, here's how often I can try checking in, and know that it can be adaptable, then great, don't try to say, here's the perfect plan, I have to stick with it for 12 months. No, right, right, right. So even when you hire this leader, have those frequent conversations. So, ideally, in this 450,000 scenario, you knew about that beforehand because together you guys said hey, here's our book of clients and this one, yeah, we spend 80% of our time on them and they only give us 20% of the revenue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to do that Right and say, okay, we'll have a plan to phase them out so that we can have more time and everything else. So again that communications there the manager feels better. They don't have to live in the anxiety of, oh, what's going to happen? Did I trust the right person with my company? And so it starts with here? Am I comfortable enough to set the clear vision, to trust the other person but also to have, let's say, I'm not going to say hard conversations, I'm going to say effective conversations, to know if we're on the right page.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:No, that's fantastic, fantastic advice and also, I would say, in all the conversations I've been in, that's definitely, I think that aligns with being able know, being able to adapt.
Speaker 2:And also what you, what you kind of, were talking about as far as in your head, is like the self-talk.
Speaker 2:You know, like you're having all these conversations in your, in your own head and it's like it's it's choosing which direction you're going to go in um, and, sometime, those questions that you're asking yourself you, you may have to have those effective conversations and actually ask them, because you're making assumptions in your own head of whatever things should be, without even having the conversation with the individual, because you don't want to take that step and have that difficult conversation for whatever reason it could be. Like you said, it's very. Have that difficult conversation, um, for whatever reason it could be. A, like you said, it's very deep, it's very that could go layers deep of how you deal with the uh emotions, how you deal with relationships, um, how you've been treated in the past way that you grew up. I mean it could be thousands of reasons of why Um think that it's good at least for people to acknowledge that that's happening and then figure out ways to work backwards and try to rectify it Exactly.
Speaker 1:Let me comment on that. So I'm going to back up a little bit but still stay specific. As far as emotions go, I'm sure everybody listening has had this experience. We receive that email that you read and it just sets you off. Oh no, that just happened.
Speaker 1:You know, somebody's mad at me or I missed that delivery or something didn't happen, or it's like you're super worried about what it's going to be and just sets you off. You read that email and the rest of your day is shot because you're right. Okay, I literally had one of these last week.
Speaker 2:yeah it was one of those where.
Speaker 1:I read the email and I was like that's it, I'm out. I was to the point of saying I'm done dealing with this. I want nothing more to do with it. I was like I'm just super mad so mad cuz I'm tired of being treated this way, that I had to go take a walk. I called three or four people. It was that bad. Okay, I just had to vent. I had to talk to people and I just had to get everything out because I didn't want to make a rash decision. Turns out, the next morning I reread the email and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was right. Maybe we all experienced that. It's like oh man, what was I thinking? Yeah, and then again I reread it, probably a few hours later, and again it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. So instead of saying you know what I'm out, I said, okay, let me analyze this and see how else I could understand this. Maybe I didn't play a part in this. Let's let me truly this and see how else I could understand this. Maybe I did play a part in this. Let me truly see what happens so I can make a rational and better decision. So there's the principle, but this happens to everybody. Something happens.
Speaker 1:As the business owner, I had this goal 500, we're going for 750. I hired this person. It's a risk to pay this person $120,000. That's a huge chunk of my revenue. I took my risk and I'm hoping it works. Then, 93 days in, you're like oh, I heard from this consultant guy that 90 days was the magic number.
Speaker 1:How come we're not there yet? We have these preconceived notions and then we start to get a little anxious. Let's say when is it going to happen? Hey, how come they're not talking to me? Hey, I thought this was going to happen yesterday but it didn't. We have all these conversations in our head and guess what? Those conversations make us feel anxious, not confident, everything else. And how does that make us treat that employee? Do we trust them anymore? Not so much. Are we more micromanaging? Do we trust them anymore? Not so much. Are we more micromanaging? Absolutely. And when they ask questions, are we less patient? Yeah, and we wonder why. Or we don't even notice because we're stuck in our thoughts.
Speaker 1:But the leader is like I'm doing my best, man, I'm doing exactly what you told me to, and now you're on my back. What's the deal? So this is where the butting of heads comes in, where communication comes, and this is why, again, people want to avoid communicating because the boss is emotional and I don't want to deal with it, and the boss is like I just want results, because it's the lack of results that are causing me to feel this way. But if we can you know what my book teaches if we can understand that there are emotions that are caused by thoughts, and goes all the way down to how I see myself, this is how you do it. Ok, these aren't the only options, but this is why successful people have coaches, why they have therapists, why they have accountability partners, because you have to have somebody that you can talk these things out, like in my example where I called three or four different people. You have to be able to talk it out so that you can come back and be in a proper state to help your employee.
Speaker 1:Otherwise, you are exacerbating the problem by saying, jamal, come on, why are we done? Right? But if I have dealt with my emotions, if I've processed my thoughts, then I can come to you and say, hey, can, can, can we just talk about where we are? Here's what I see. Here's what's worrying me. Can you fill in some blanks? And then you know I can't. Let me tell you. Oh, good to know. Then, if I still think you know what we're at day 93, we're not as far as I thought we would be. What can we do to speed up these results? Then I bring you into the conversation instead of saying let me figure it out in lieu of you that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's, that's powerful, that's powerful no it's, it's all, it's all good, it's all good, um, so I want to. I want to, uh, good, so I want to go into a little bit of the coaching business. So some of our audience are aspiring coaches, or maybe they're already. They have a coaching business, they're authors and they want to go into coaching their speakers. And they want to go into coaching because, you know, oftentimes in our, in the personal branding world, it's a natural progression to go into coaching. Because you know, oftentimes in our, in the personal branding world, it's a natural progression to go into coaching because you're really good at a particular thing, you're really good at showing it and people want to ask you questions on that non-stop so then you say, yeah, I, I can let me coach you on that.
Speaker 2:You, you know I can't spend all day, every day, just giving out freebies to everybody. You wouldn't be able to live. So, on the coaching business, what has been? Because you've been doing it for a while. So what's what's one challenge that you've had to overcome in your business? If it was early on, if it was last week, whatever it was, what's one challenge you had to overcome and how did you overcome that challenge? And it could be clients, it could be the marketing side, it could be systems. I mean, whatever, that is what was the challenge for you and how did you overcome it?
Speaker 1:Great question, I'll probably share two. Is that okay? Yeah, go ahead. Great question, I'll probably share two. Is that okay? Yeah, go ahead. So first, you know it comes down to a sense of value, personal value, okay, and you know, talk on it, talk on it. So, with me, I was an HR intern and I grew to manage the HR department for an international company with nearly 2000 employees, and so you know, I helped grow that company on the executive table. And you'd think, hey, this guy has a bachelor's, he has his master's, he's a senior certified professional in the HR world, he's very respected, very knowledgeable and he can handle all these things in five different countries in his 20s, what you know? Thinking, wow, this guy's got it. And that's what most people told me. Like, wow, ben, this is amazing, you're impressive, got it. And that's what most people told me, like, wow, ben, this is amazing, you're, you're impressive, you're respected and everything else, except for my boss and my co-workers, who, many of them, were his family his parents, his sisters, okay.
Speaker 1:And so I started to have these doubts, come in and say, well, the rest of the world is saying go, ben. And. And my boss and coworkers who, quote unquote, see me most often because, hey, eight hours a day, five days a week kind of thing they doubt what I do, they say HR is a necessary evil. In fact they said to me Ben, we have nothing against you, we just hate HR. And I'm telling you things like that.
Speaker 1:And then me walking past my boss's door with him and his other you know my coworkers and I overheard him saying I will fire Ben. Like what, what did I do? So just things like that, starting to say am I valued? And then, guess what? Me and HR, I get to see what everybody else has paid. And then I see what I'm paid and it's nowhere near what they get paid and I'm like what the heck? I'm not valued. That's what I've started to believe about myself that not HR wasn't valued, I wasn't valued. Me, me, me, okay, that's what I was starting to understand.
Speaker 1:And so, even though I was in this place where the world said Ben, you're where most people want to be, an executive in your twenties, with nice things traveling the world and everything else. I was suffering in silence. I mean, that's just one tiny part of the story as to why I was suffering in silence. I mean, that's just one tiny part of the story as to why I was suffering in silence. But I felt like I couldn't tell anyone. I'm HR, you go to HR, who's HR supposed to go to? Yeah, right, right, right, you're a successful HR professional. Why would you need help? You have, you have it together, you know. So you can't admit that you're suffering. And then I, you know, I had people say, ben, you have the picture perfect life. So that became a mask and I said, well, I have to live with that mask and I can't take it off because people will think, oh, he's no longer picture perfect, right? So those things existed.
Speaker 2:Now I forgot where I'm going with all this, but did say you're, you're, you're, yeah, you're challenged.
Speaker 1:You're challenged. Yes, yes, challenge value there you go, thank you.
Speaker 1:And so, uh, as an executive, I would speak at least twice a year at our management retreats and, you know, ahead of the department I would speak on hr and I'd be able to thread in some coaching principles I didn't know they were coaching principles at the time, but some self-development and mindset and perspective and everything else and people are like dude, that's awesome. This is so cool. We love your speeches, we love hearing from you, and a fellow executive who we had brought in from outside said Ben, you could do this full-time, make a lot of money. You're good at it. I'm like and long story short, I did get into the speaking world because I had my story, I had my message and I wanted to help people on how to overcome what I called emotional pain.
Speaker 1:You know, I turned to addictions. I have what's called hyperhidrosis it's excessive sweating and that affected me for 20 years my sense of confidence. It affected how I dated, affected that what I did in all things. Okay, so that's probably a story we don't have time for. But, um, these things existed and they all internally said Ben, you're not good enough, ben, you're not good enough, ben, you're not good enough.
Speaker 1:And so I tried one to pretend it didn't bother me too. I tried hiding behind a shield of success, which was this executive world. That didn't work. And so again I'd finally turned to addictions. But guess what, that doesn't help either. You know, that's a temporary bandaid that makes you feel worse afterwards. So again, all this to say on the outside, you got it figured out your life's amazing. On the inside, I was suffering in silence, so I did not feel valued. So when I got into the speaking world, I say, hey, I'm going to do this, I'm good'm good, this is cool. And when people came to me and said, I love your story, I think you can help me, then we said, okay, we can try coaching. Literally I started coaching at 25 bucks an hour. Yeah, even then I felt guilty. 25 bucks an is that a little much?
Speaker 1:But since you know, I've grown in confidence right Grown in confidence, like what we talked about at the beginning of our conversation. Doing it many times said, yeah, I could charge my worth that. And then I'd meet different people, different coaches for me, different programs, and said, dude, you're worth a whole lot more than that. You bring a lot more value. And so I did. I started to raise my price and, yes, now I'm a lot more than 25 bucks an hour, but it is worth every penny because, just on the monetary side of things, I help people make much more than they pay me. But also it feels so much better to know that I'm valued and to be paid for what I'm valued. Okay, Because I know what I can bring. I know the impact that I can have on people, these executives, these business owners, these successful people. They're listening to this conversation right now.
Speaker 1:If you're thinking, yeah, I have money, but I need more time and I have no idea what to do about it. I'm sick of the 80 hours. I have money, I can hire people, but what am I supposed to do? Because I want to step away from the business and work on other things? Who am I I supposed to turn to for help Because I'm suffering in silence, even though it looks like I have everything put together. Or, on the other spectrum that I mentioned, I was successful at work In the corporate world. People said, dude, you're the executive, this is cool. And I left to start my business thinking, oh, I'm going to create something awesome. Three years later and it's not awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like I can't tell anybody because you know he's supposed to have figured out he's never needed help before and you feel like you can't tell anybody. I can help you and I know that, and I know that with such certainty and I know that I'm good at it and I know that when I'm saying this if you think I'm prideful, sorry, but it's called this aspect of confidence because I can stand confidently where I am, in such a place that I can see you 100% and know what you need, help you with what you need. And it's very likely that I've been in a similar situation as you, so I can help on an empathetic level as well to get what you need. So when we get into the coaching, you're good at what you do. That's why people ask you yes you can.
Speaker 1:So when people ask you to help, you know your value first and own that value and I get it, sometimes I I have this conversation and they're like the perfect client, the perfect client, the person that would need me, that I could help and it would be amazing relationship. And then I tell them how much I charge and they're like, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so I have the doubts.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh man, am I charging too much? You know I still have those conversations every once in a while, but I know that it's the value, right? The Mercedes doesn't say, well, because people can't pay for me, I'm just gonna charge 15 grand. No, mercedes is still Mercedes. Make sense, right? Yeah, yeah, and people respect it. People, when they pay, they're more, what's the word? Engaged, more committed, yeah, right. And so now, of course, you don't charge a bazillion dollars and only give ten dollars of value. No, you make sure that you provide more than they're paying you for, right, right, that's good, right, there's a long answer for for that part, does that help?
Speaker 2:oh it, man, uh, honestly, you've dropped a lot of gems on this podcast, but that that right there was, um, I could feel, I could feel the emotion. So, um, just if I can grab this real quick, I uh. So I have this thing in my uh, in my talk. It's kind of part of the part of the brand and everything, but it's from my favorite movie of all time uh, v for vendetta. So I don't know if you've ever seen this movie, uh, but this is the guy folks mask. Um, they celebrated over in england, um, but the movie is called v for vendetta and I have this whole thing in my talk and it's kind of part of the brand and you, you kind of, you kind of uh, actually, you really touched on it where you literally were wearing a mask, yeah, and um, and, and it was just perfectly said in a way, because I could feel it's almost like you had painted the picture where I could feel and sit in your shoes for a second of what it was like to go through that, because there's a lot of people going through that, um, and it was just so perfectly said of how, like, because of the way the world sees us, we try to show up in a certain way and even if we're like aching inside and trying to or battling, we're trying to figure this whole thing out with a ton of anxiety, depression, emotions, um, self-doubt, self-sabotage, I mean all these things that we go through it's. We still have to show up with this, with this mask, every single day, and it's so freeing when you can take it off. It's so freeing when you can take it off. It's so freeing when you can take it off. It's it's, it's something. It's like man.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm obviously people know me for the comic book stuff. I love comic books, I love, you know, movies like this, superheroes and all that stuff. But man, when I, it's like the reverse effect, like if, if, when I, when I put on, if I'm putting on the Batman suit, like you feel invincible, but then, like you put, you take it off and you gotta like go back to normal life and just be. But, like in your analogy of taking that mask off, you're, you're, you're becoming that superhero, you're becoming that person that can show up as their authentic self every single day. And the fact that you went through that transition of 25 dollars an hour, like you're an employee, like you're an employee like you don't got other things to pay for or other other value um to give in that situation, to go from that to to whatever you're paying to, really, really just knowing your value, your worth of what you're charging now and also clients still paying that and getting a great result. It's just so inspiring, so inspiring for everybody that's listening.
Speaker 2:Um, anybody that's building a personal brand like listen to what ben just said. Anybody that's building a personal brand, like listen to what Ben just said. Anybody that's building a personal brand for themselves. But also if you're building a career as well, because if you don't know your worth, how are you going to grow your career? It's so hard to do that if you don't know your worth and maybe the environment that you're in is not where you're supposed to be and so you may have to step outside, just like ben did, and take that bet on yourself.
Speaker 2:Or go find the next journey. Go find what, what place is going to value you as an individual, um, so that way you can shine the brightest that you can be. So I, that was incredible, man, like seriously, that was one of the best breakdowns I've ever heard of the mask. I may even mention you. I got to speak in a couple of weeks. I may mention you on stage, bro, because that, right, there was like the perfect scenario, the perfect way to explain why people wear, wear this, yeah, all day, every day, and especially, you're the hr guy, right, you're supposed to have it all together and who are you supposed to go to? But there's tons of entrepreneurs and business owners that feel exactly the same way. There's tons of executives that feel exactly the same way. Because you're supposed to have it all together, who?
Speaker 2:are you supposed to go to? Yeah, Crazy, crazy, crazy. Good conversation, man. I want to know for everybody where can they get the book? Where can they get the book? Man, how we See Ourselves, where can they get the book?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the website howweseeourselvescom is where you can buy a signed copy from me, or anywhere you can buy an online book. Yeah, so the website how we see ourselvescom is where you can buy a signed copy for me, or anywhere you can buy an online book. Right, amazon Barnes novel, all the websites is where you can find how we see ourselves and literally the depth of the book is exactly what we're talking about right now. It's the subject of when I left my professional career and I went through therapy and coaching and I turned myself around and changed how I saw myself and valued myself again. I turned self-doubt into self-belief and I was like, wow, if I had the picture perfect life and suffered in silence. I wonder if anybody else does. So I turned to my professional friends and I was like, hey, have you ever felt this way? And they said, bro, we all feel this way.
Speaker 1:The problem is nobody talks about it, so that I have made my mission. I'm a God-fearing man and I believe that he has called me to do this, and the book is literally about that. You can have the accolades, you can have the successes, but if internally, you feel that suffering and silence, this book was written for you, how to get yourself out of that, how you can still achieve but enjoy life in all areas, not just work. Okay, a lot of people hide themselves inside of work, thinking this is my, this is my fulfillment, this is what makes me successful. Then their family lives crumble, they turn to addictions, their health suffers, all these things, which is hey, what was I, what I was doing? But now I'm successful at work, I have a great relationship, my health is good, you know, in all areas of life it's much better because I don't have to wear that mask.
Speaker 2:Man, get the book, guys. Get the book, you guys, you guys, you guys right now watching. Get the book, if you guys, if you guys are watching, um, when we post this out, get the book. If you guys are watching when we post this out, get the book.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get the book Awesome. I enjoy signing them. I enjoy hearing from people who've read them too, Even past that first chapter.
Speaker 2:Even past the first chapter. Get past the first chapter. Come on, If you're going to buy it. Get past the first chapter.
Speaker 1:It is on Audible too.
Speaker 2:If you just want to listen, there you go. If, if anybody ever says like, hey, man, that was a really great book, you tell them say what was the first chapter? What? Tell me what the first chapter was, because it's pretty short and and I think that you could remember it exactly exactly. Um, what's? What's one thing that you can give everybody real quick before we sign off. What's one thing that you can give everybody real quick before we sign off. What's one thing you can give everybody as far as like, how can we get our business to the next level? What's one piece of advice either that has worked for you or worked for your clients. As far as that one piece, that one thing. I know it can vary on industry, business, where you're at scale, but what is a consistent thing that you've seen, either from yourself, from your own coaching, speaking, training, business, but also what businesses that you've helped, what's the one thing that can really get people to the next level?
Speaker 1:So many thoughts going through my head, but I'll just choose this one the principle of get out of your own head. Okay, going through my head, but I'll just choose this one the principle of get out of your own head. Okay. So, if you can talk to somebody like a coach, accountability partner, whatever if you can read books, if you can go to networking events, if you listen to podcasts like this, that's how you get out of your head. And when you get out of your head, you see what's possible. You see past your limiting beliefs and all of a sudden, you start to move forward instead of saying, well, I want to, but I, but I can't, and here's why. No, you see, here's how it's possible and here's what I'm going to do, because others are doing it too.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think we are in our own heads because we don't have anybody to talk to yeah, way too much isolation, and so it's important to get people in your circle like yourself and be able to bounce those ideas off of and be able to talk this stuff out, especially for what I call high achievers people that are in these positions where they have to deliver. It's very stressful and we got to look out for one another and so you got to be able to talk with one another to get to that next level. So thank you, ben, so much for being on this podcast. Through all the promotion and when we drop it and everything, you'll have links, you'll have places people can go to connect with you on social and all that, all the things. But I want people to get this book first. Connect with Ben, but get the book. Yes, absolutely Get the book man Don't play yourself.
Speaker 2:Get the book. Yes, what are you doing? All right, thank you so much for being on here. Man Can't wait to continue to follow your journey as well, to see what you do next when you're on. Follow Ben, too. Post a picture when you're on this cruise ship too, so people can get a little glimpse of that cruise life, the cruise ship life. Man, see, now you, you've opened. You've you've opened up a new goal for me.
Speaker 1:I need to go speak on a.
Speaker 2:I need to go speak on a cruise ship, see what just happened, yeah.
Speaker 2:That would be. That would be fantastic, man. But, yeah, thank you so much. Everybody listening, watching, please subscribe to the forever podcast. We are everywhere that you listen to the uh forever podcast. Um, we are everywhere that you listen to the podcast. Uh, make sure you comment, uh, like, share, subscribe to all the channels and, um, and share this with somebody. Share this with somebody you know who needs to hear this right now. Um, share this episode with somebody so that way you don't hold on to all the goodness, all the good, the good stuff that you just heard. Share it with somebody and that way you don't hold on to all the goodness, all the good, the good stuff that you just heard. Share it with somebody and we'll catch you on the next episode. Peace. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe, and don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget you can change your circle to change your life.
