The Foureva Podcast
Welcome to The Foureva Podcast, where we break barriers and redefine success!
Join host Jamar Jones, a dynamic entrepreneur, national speaker, and author of "Change Your Circle, Change Your Life," as he takes you on an extraordinary journey of inspiration and motivation.
In each episode, we bring you an impressive lineup of star-studded guests, each with a unique voice and a wealth of insights to share. From industry leaders to renowned experts, we uncover their secrets to success in personal, business, and marketing domains. Prepare to be captivated by their stories, strategies, and experiences that will empower you to reach new heights.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a marketing professional, or simply seeking fresh perspectives on life and business, The Foureva Podcast is your ultimate destination. Discover the transformative power of changing your circle and unlocking your full potential. With each episode, we delve into the minds of the most influential voices in the industry, providing you with the tools and inspiration you need to overcome obstacles and achieve greatness.
Don't miss out on this dynamic podcast that will fuel your ambition, challenge your limits, and propel you toward success. Tune in to The Foureva Podcast and join a community of driven individuals who are ready to make an impact. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and 'foureva' transformed!
The Foureva Podcast
Harvard-Trained Psychiatrist Dr. Srini Pillay on the Science of Business Success
Ready to unlock your leadership potential, master your mindset, and build a business that aligns with your purpose? In this powerful episode, Jamar Jones sits down with Harvard-trained psychiatrist, executive coach, and serial entrepreneur Dr. Srini Pillay for a deep, transformative conversation on business, creativity, brain science, and leadership.
Dr. Srini is the co-founder of Roulet, an AI-driven platform that helps people develop healthier longevity and high-performance mindsets. With a background in psychiatry, neuroscience, and creativity—from writing musicals to running brain imaging labs—he helps leaders and founders break through fear, boost clarity, and access untapped potential by blending science with soul.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
✅ Why mindset is more important than strategy
✅ How to access the “unfocused brain” to solve complex business problems
✅ The 5-step “CIRCA” formula to calm fear and unlock clarity
✅ How to lead from your true self and build energized, aligned teams
✅ The role of creativity in execution—and why logic alone isn’t enough
✅ Why your team literally lives in your brain (and how to choose wisely)
✅ How to blend art, science, and business to unlock your full potential
Plus, Srini shares his personal story of getting into Harvard by cold-calling the dean—and how a possibility mindset changed his life.
If you’re a leader, founder, creative, or changemaker, this episode will leave you inspired and equipped to build something remarkable.
Follow Dr. Srini on Instagram and Twitter @DrSriniPillay and check out his books like “Tinker Dabble Doodle Try” and “Your Brain and Business.”
🔔 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and SHARE this with a fellow visionary who needs to hear it!
If you really want to change the business, you want to change the people. If you want to change the people, one place to target is to target the mindset by understanding what goes on in the brain. So for me, when you think about business strategies, so people think strategy is just this logical thing. As long as you've got a strategy, you're going to be able to get to your goal. But when you look at companies worldwide, only 30% of strategies are successfully executed and of those, most CEOs believe they're too slow.
Speaker 2:What's going on? How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Thank you. Even better now that I know we're going to jump into a conversation that I don't precisely know about, but I just know that a lot will come out of it.
Speaker 2:It always does. It always does Especially, I think, the last time when we talked you even mentioned there was just a good energy. There's just good energy going back and forth and, hey, we might even be in different worlds, but like, energy is so, so powerful for connection and I want to dive a little bit into that. So first of all, explain to everybody just who you are and what you do.
Speaker 1:So I do a lot of different things I think relevant to this particular podcast. I am a certified master executive coach that uses my background in psychiatry and in brain science to help leaders at Fortune 500 companies develop strategies and lead more effectively to build more resilient, agile and creative teams. So my background is in psychiatry. I trained at Harvard. I also ran a part of the Brain Imaging Center and I work in biotechnology across medicine, looking at drugs in early stage development for cancer, heart disease, stroke and neurodegenerative disease. I just finished writing a musical and then I co-founded two tech companies.
Speaker 1:The company that I'm working the most in right now is called Roulet, which is an AI-driven platform that we actually offer to businesses to help them develop healthier longevity through mindset shifts.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people feel like you just have the mindset that you're born with or the mindset that you get up with, but what we realized is that people could really benefit from having science based mindset shifts. So if you're feeling pessimistic, you could become more optimistic. If you're feeling distracted, you could become more focused, and we use video art to try to capture this, and we do a lot of other things on the platform. We have cognitive interventions like growth mindset tips. We also have these video experiences when you have nature-based art, we have geometric art and we have fractal art. We also have these celebrity journeys, where we show brief clips of celebrities talking about their own challenges and then give tips in associated in association with that and a bunch of other things. So I'd encourage people to check out the Rulé platform and I think you and I can talk about this and even give people some free access for a while if you think that'll be helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course Everybody loves free. As people are jumping into the live stream here, everybody loves free, and also it gets them to experience it and kind of test it out and see what's going on there. Why is mindset so important to you?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, when I started doing this work, people would be like why is this neuroscientist coming to talk to businesses about something?
Speaker 1:And I would say well, businesses are made up of people and people have brains. So if you really want to change the business, you want to change the people. If you want to change the people, one place to target is to target the mindset, by understanding what goes on in the brain. So for me, when you think about business strategies, people think strategy is just this logical thing. As long as you've got a strategy, you're going to be able to get to your goal. But when you look at companies worldwide, only 30% of strategies are successfully executed and of those, most CEOs believe they're too slow.
Speaker 2:so how come when you have?
Speaker 1:a nice strategy and it's written down and it makes sense to you what's going on that you can actually execute on that.
Speaker 1:It's not just not doing it. You'll have all kinds of mental blocks, obstructions, and a lot of times people don't realize you need to connect with another part of your brain. Because a lot of times people don't realize you need to connect with another part of your brain, because thinking for strategy is not just linear, it's complex and, as I mentioned to you, my last book, which is sort of Tinker Dabble Doodle, try Unlock the Power of the Unfocused Mind, is about explaining that in the brain you have a kind of linear circuit which is for you know, what do I need to do in this week this month? How do I build my brand of circuit which is for what do I need to do in this week this month? How do I build my brand? But you also have, when you stop focusing, you turn on another part of your brain which is this unfocused circuit called the default mode network, and that part of the brain recalls memories that your logical brain can't recall. It's also better at abstract thought and it's better at complex thought.
Speaker 1:And most entrepreneurs will tell you that it's just not straightforward to build a brand and build a business. You know people say go on Instagram and say something and make it short.
Speaker 2:And you'll get customers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the customers don't just show up. There has to be some other piece of magic, and this circuit in the brain is what I believe the magic circuit is. You know, steve Jobs used to say you have to believe in something. You can't join the dots moving forward, but you have to believe in something Gut, karma, life, destiny, whatever I call that something, the default mode network. And that's why I wrote this book to help people understand how you can tap into this network to boost your entrepreneurial game or to boost your game as the CEO of a company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I totally agree with you, especially about that stat that's very, very interesting about the 30%. But I can see it Most people, they talk all day. All they do is talk, talk, talk, talk. They strategize, strategize, strategize, plan, plan, plan. And then I'm like, by the time, you're doing all that. You know people are already doing things. You know it's. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:There was a story that I think oh, I forgot her, I forgot her name but the story was that Elon Musk, when he was starting to position his companies and there was an issue, so he was on a flight, I think, with a bunch of engineers on the flight and then he was like they were talking about, kind of like, hey, how long things are going to take to actually get into production, and they were talking like years, years to get the stuff done. And what he said he's like's like, okay, well, what are the problems? And then they started to brainstorm the problems and he's like all right, you know what? Turn this plane around, we're gonna go fly to the, to the plant of, where the problems supposedly were, and they ended up solving the they're all the problems within two days. And so it turned from two years to two days of actual action. So to your point like why, why do we, why do we drag ourselves through the mud of trying to execute that stuff when really, at the, at the end of the day, we want the outcomes?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know I I think one of the biggest blocks most business people and entrepreneurs face is they stop having a possibility mindset. They just work from probability and they're like what's the likelihood of success? If you're an entrepreneur, the likelihood of success is very low. You probably shouldn't do it if you're following probability. What you want to do as an entrepreneur is be that exception, right? You want to be that person who's going to succeed, and so for me, like even on the Rulé platform, we have a possibility mindset channel to help people channel that Now.
Speaker 1:I'll give you an example. It's from my own life. It was interesting, and when I was at medical school in South Africa, which is where I'm from originally I it was my final exam and I was talking to my examiner. My examiner happened to be from NYU and I did well in my exam and he said you know, you should really be at Harvard. And I was like I didn't really know anything about Harvard. I was planning to potentially go to the UK and I was like, yeah, it must be difficult to get into Harvard. How do you do that? And so I forgot about it. I thought it was a good exam. I did well.
Speaker 1:Then I went to a conference the next year and I went to this guy's talk and I was so lit up by that. I was like whoever this person is, it's unbelievable. I love what he's talking about. And he stood next to me and when Carl was coming to pick me up, I just looked at him and I said I just went to your talk. It was pretty amazing. And he said thank you. And then I just said something I would know. I mean who would say this? I said I have a funny feeling that you could influence the future of my life. Can you just say anything? And he looked at me and he goes what do you mean?
Speaker 2:I said I don't know. He said well, what are?
Speaker 1:you interested in. I said, well, I'm interested in the brain and I'm interested in human moods and mindsets and how they function. And he said well, there's a scholarship tomorrow. Why don't you apply for it? We've never given it to anyone of color, we've never given it to anyone in psychiatry. The chances you are getting it are close to zero. But if you get it, it will change your life and it was due. The following day I sent it to him and he took it over to the committee, called me a couple hours later and said congratulations, welcome to Stellenbosch, which was kind of like crazy.
Speaker 1:I go to that university for a year to study neurochemistry. And I decided one day you know what I think? I just want to go to Harvard. But how do you get there?
Speaker 1:Now, logically, strategically, most people would say call up the dean, talk to somebody. I was just like you know. We could hardly use the internet then, but what I did was I picked up the phone. I went through several exchanges until I got to. I said I want to speak to the head of Harvard. And they were like the head of Harvard, what? And I said just the head of all of Harvard. They were like no, sir, there has to be a department you're interested in Undergraduate medical school. I said medical school, so I go to the medical school dean's office. They go oh, you want the Department of Psychiatry head.
Speaker 1:He happened to be in his office. His secretary had stepped away. He picked up the phone and I was like hi, my name is Srini Pillai. I'm sitting here in my small dorm room in South Africa and I'm thinking boy, wouldn't it be great to be at Harvard Now. I had done very well, but there are a lot of people who do well who wouldn't pick up the phone and call somebody. And he said well, he told me later I thought you were crazy, but what I did was I just said send me your CV, I'll circulate it and see what happens. A couple weeks later I get a note saying Dr Jonathan Cole wants to interview you. He was the father of psychopharmacology. I have a phone interview. A couple weeks later I get a FedEx envelope Congratulations and welcome to Harvard. Now is this like a logical way you get into Harvard?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Not at all. But for me it became emblematic of when you're working with a possibility mindset. You're just looking for the way to get to where you want to get to and you'll have a million obstacles along the way. But if you don't have a possibility mindset, you're going to go back to. Well, that's not likely. We're probably going to fail Sometimes. That's not likely. We're probably going to fail Sometimes. That's helpful. But I think for most people learning to develop a possibility mindset, to say I want to make what is like, I want my business to be the most successful business in the world and I want to start that today. So let me just, if anything takes me off course, I'm coming back to that. And it's not just that. Obviously, you have to still take action. You have to have a product, you have to sell the product, but the energy with which you sell the product makes all the difference in the world. In my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just so powerful. I talk to so many different people, I hear their stories and it's always something of someone taking a chance on themselves, usually also going in a route that's not typical, and then also asking for help. So we have to be willing I just posted this today, actually that we have to be willing to ask for what we want, and you wouldn never went down that that path If you just didn't open up and say, hey, this is what I'm trying to do, this is what I would like to do you, you, you put it out there in the universe and it just it just came to you, but also you took advantage of it too. So it wasn't just like like you went down the easy street.
Speaker 2:It was you. You took advantage of the opportunity and you placed a bet on yourself. Which is it just so? That's what hinders people from doing a lot of anything is they don't ask for what they want. They kind of just wait for the world to just lay it in their lap or show them something, when really you just got to ask a little bit more. So that's super powerful. Yeah Well, I think one of the reasons people don more, so that's super powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I think one of the reasons people don't ask is because they're afraid. They're like someone's going to think I'm crazy. Why did I not have the thought someone's going to think I'm crazy? Because I just had my eye on a goal. I'm sort of like I got to get there. But fear is one of the things I've studied because I ran an outpatient anxiety disorder service at Harvard and I often will teach people a simple five-step process. If you're feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling like I don't know how this product's going to get to market. I don't know how I'm going to market it.
Speaker 1:There's a five-step process that can change the brain in order to help you release that fear, and it's defined by the mnemonic CIRCA C-I-R-C-A. The first C is chunking. You don't have to take on the next 10 years when you're an entrepreneur. When you're an entrepreneur, you want to have a vision, but you also want to say how do I chunk this out? What am I going to do this month, the next month? Because the moment you do that, the amygdala, one of the anxiety processes in the brain, starts to calm down and it lets you think more clearly. The the eye is is ignore mental chatter, which basically, the mind is made to be like a monkey. Basically it's like running around chattering. You can't do this. How are you going to do this when you're going to?
Speaker 1:do this yeah, have some way of bringing stillness, whether it's with music, with something like roulette, whether it's with meditation, the with something like Roulet, whether it's with meditation. The moment you teach yourself to ignore that mental chatter, you actually can calm the mind down so that your strategic brain has some space to think. The R in circa is reality check. Let's say something terrible happens. You don't get a round of funding, or your product fails, or you realize that you don't have the money to do something. The first thing you say is this too shall pass, otherwise, if you don't use self-talk and you don't, when you use self-talk it changes your brain and this reality check is super powerful to help you do that.
Speaker 1:The second C is control check, which is you know, only pay attention to the stuff you can control. You get up in the morning, you look in the news terrible things are happening everywhere. Sure, you can empathize, but why use up all your attentional units thinking about stuff you're going to be nothing, you're going to be doing nothing about? And then the last a is attention shift, which is how can I stop thinking about the problem? And now I want to bring my attention to the solution. So, c-i-r-c-a chunking, ignore mental chatter, reality check, control, check and attention shift and those five things have been shown to change the brain so that the anxiety brain calms down and your strategic brain has space to think.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, it's just. It's so beautifully said too, and it makes sense because I know we've all been there. We've all been there and then actually we got somebody in the in the chat, another mindset coach, it looks like. So this is so fascinating. Thanks for sharing. I mean, it's it.
Speaker 2:Everybody goes through through this stuff, you know, and and most of the work, too, is also in our mind. Once we can get through whatever's going on up here, a lot of the things that we create really in our own reality, it all starts from here, and then, as long as we, then we have the power, the knowledge, the really the ability to, I say, unlock our self-awareness. So everything that you just said with those steps is unlocking your self-awareness, and the more self-aware you can become, the better you are at taking advantage of opportunities and also understanding where you're going and then also how to stay on the right path as well, right, which is just absolutely incredible. I want to, I want to ask you, because one thing I found about you that's extremely unique is your ability to live in both worlds of creativity, but also science and predictability, and you know, just like honing in on truth, so um, so how, I guess.
Speaker 2:First, the question is why? Why do you live in both these worlds where you've you know you're writing musicals, you've designed fashion shows? I mean, this is it's very. It's not normal for people to run into people like you. So why is that so important to live on both sides of your brain like that?
Speaker 1:So for a couple of different reasons, right? So if you think about um, you know, when you were talking about the self circuit, yeah, so, like how, self-awareness, the self circuit in the brain, is actually the brain's unfocused circuit. So so when you, if you're just focused, focus, focus, fatigue the whole day, your self circuit doesn't come on. The who you are, who you really are, comes on when you stop focusing for a while and you will not, whether you're taking a booster break or you're in the shower, or there's a thing called positive, constructive daydreaming, where you don't just daydream, you do something low key while you're letting your mind go. When you do that kind of thing, it allows you to integrate all these intangibles about yourself. Now, as a business leader, yeah, you have to execute on the business, but you have to do it as you. You know, people always say you've got to find your why. I believe, before you find your why, you've got to find your I. You have to figure out who am I, that I can do this business.
Speaker 1:Now for me, I trained in music. I love science. I studied the arts and the sciences. I started a technology company. To me, these things are not separate, like there are two views on what's separate, like some people believe that the world was born with creativity and science in different departments. Now these things are also served by the one brain Right, whatever creativity is going on in your brain. A great example of this is Da Vinci right. I mean his whole idea of being able to draw precise mathematical things but also have the artistic capability that he had, explains that science and creativity are not outside. It's not like one person has a scientific brain and one has a creative brain. There's some genetic component to it but it's small.
Speaker 1:Most people can develop creative capacities, most people can develop scientific capacities. You know, if you tell girls, for example, if you just leave them as they are and they take math tests, the boys outperform them by far. And everybody says, well see, I mean, girls are just not good at math. Well, if you take that group of girls and you prime them and you say you can do this, you can be at the top of your class. They do as well as any boy. So it's not about what your innate capacity is, it's about the limit that you've placed on yourself.
Speaker 1:And so, for me, music inspires me, art inspires me, I like having fun, I work hard and I play hard.
Speaker 1:Working hard and playing hard is how I get work done, if you talk to anybody who I work with, they would probably tell you that my level of productivity is very high and I work long hours, but when I'm out playing, I like to play and so I feel like creativity for me is a place that also informs what I'm doing in unexpected ways. So if you think about Steve Jobs, for example, and his whole idea that you know, his whole idea about the Mac and Mac fonts came because he went to a class on fonts and he didn't know why that was relevant, but later on that inspired a whole aesthetic in what the Mac came to be. And if you think about what you know, what's phenomenal about an iPhone or it's the original design thinking that was an art form that informed this technology. So I don't believe that art and science need to live in different domains. You know, I think that artists and scientists can talk to each other more. In fact, that's one of the greatest passions of my life I want to bring these worlds together, because I think that's how you're going to bring a lot of people in the world together, where the artists can inform the science, the scientist can inform the art. You know, when I studied music, I realized after a short period of time that this was very mathematical. Stephen Winick, yeah, and I was like this is kind of interesting, like how is it that these two worlds come together, music and math? And so I would say for any business leader, if there is some part of your life that you feel you're inspired by, in order to have intrinsic motivation, there's a theory called self determination theory, but one of the key factors is autonomy Be yourself and you do you. And if you can be yourself and you can do you, it activates the intrinsic motivation circuits in the brain and you feel more motivated.
Speaker 1:If someone came to me, I've had many conversations and I respectfully disagree with venture capitalists who believe this. We've said things like well, you probably should be focused, and I was like I just wrote an entire book on why the unfocused brain can augment your thinking. This is based on the science of unfocused. Just because you like to focus doesn't mean I should want to do this, and I heard Will Smith say this one time it was in this movie where he said everyone will tell you in life you should be this or you should be that. And it's like you should be you, because you will really regret it if you fail. Not as you. Yeah, you know, if I gave up on my music I mean I said I'll just focus on one thing I would never be able to function. You know, for me, ruthless prioritization is important, and so I feel like, if you think about a classic day, I know what priorities I need, I know what I need to get on this tech platform. Nothing's going to get done unless it gets done.
Speaker 1:So for me, that part and building the science around it is critical. But I also know that we have to keep on thinking about the design of the business. Like design is one of those things that's left out of many entrepreneurs thinking, but it's. I think it's fundamental. If you listen to Bernard Arnault, the founder of Louis Vuitton, when he talks about what is the person who grew it the most, when he talks about what makes him successful, he says it's a combination of creativity and practicality. And when his son talks about how he grew it, he said everybody thinks he's a mastermind with spreadsheets. He's got the best businessman in the world. That's not his strength. His strength is to unleash the power of creators. When you bring Marc Jacobs in there and you say to Marc Jacobs, go to town. When you bring Virgil Abloh into there and you say I mean, it takes guts to hire someone as your head fashion director. There's no background in fashion. David Plylar, right, he's got a background in architecture and engineering. But Virgil Abloh said you know, it's all the yin and the yang. David Plylar, yeah, like you think of the structure of the jacket and then you also think of the functionality of the jacket and he produced some amazing pieces that have changed the world of fashion really. Yeah. So you know Marc Jacobs.
Speaker 1:For example, when Bernard Haneau hired him, I think, he decided he wanted to make these newspaper dresses, okay. And people were like that's ridiculous. No woman's going to wear a newspaper dress. What if it rains? What if there's? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. And he was like no, don't stop the creative process prematurely, let's have a fashion show inside. And so people came in with the dresses. They were on the runway and then they had a eureka moment. They were like you know what, let's make this out of material, but let's use newspaper print. And so they changed the material. But he gave his creative ultimate liberty to see his imagination in front of him and once he could see that, he could move that.
Speaker 1:But I think most business leaders that you talk to. If you talk to Satya Nadella at Microsoft, for example, he single handedly changed the business financials of that company not single handedly, but probably with the rest of his company. But there was one instrumental thing that he changed. He changed it with growth mindset. If you Google Satya Nadella, growth mindset anywhere online, you'll see that that was central to his strategy.
Speaker 1:He wanted people to stop saying no, we can't do that, that's the limit, and to start saying I don't know how to do it, but I just know, with effort I'm going to get there. So I have to figure out how to make mistakes and then grow. But in each of these examples Steve Jobs with his design sensibility, bernard arnault with combining creativity and organization, satya nadela in inspiring the growth mindset there is an inkling that it's not just about pure logical execution. There's something about combining creativity and the science of organization that makes most businesses tick yeah, yeah, and you have to have that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't see especially with inventions or anything that's new into the world. You have to be creative in that approach, I mean, and then even in the execution. So, going back to the beginning of the podcast, we talked about execution. As you're executing something, there's something magical. There's a magical moment that normally happens in execution where you get hit with some roadblocks of things that you didn't plan for, the things that you didn't strategize for, and it takes creativity some time to to make things work, to think on the fly oh, we didn't, we didn't anticipate that. But now that we know that, but maybe there's a, maybe there's a world that we do this or maybe we do this now with it oh, I didn't know we were going to get introduced to this person, but maybe they could be a part of this and then you start to develop. But that's that's the magic of execution. That's why I'm a I'm more of a believer in execution than strategize all day and plan all day.
Speaker 2:I mean I think it's very critical to plan. I mean you don't want to just like dive into stuff right with no plan, but there's something magic about when you actually execute, because then you're doing the activity and you need both sides of the brain to actually produce. Whatever the goal is, you have to have it, and a lot of people will try to lean heavy onto one side or the other side. And I love how you just think about the world in this way of combining both of those platforms, and you're not just talking about it too. A lot of people will talk about it, serena. You're doing both of those platforms and you're not just talking about it too. A lot of people will talk about it, serena. You're doing both sides of it. You're in this, you have science, you're in the tech, but you're also in the fashion and the music and you're living and doing both sides of it. It's just awesome to see.
Speaker 1:But I think it's important to embody what you feel right and to actually continue, like even for me there's no, there's no, like final answer. I'm always growing, but there's a concept I wrote about in my sub stack yesterday which I I want to. I don't usually like this term because it's always used a little bit shallowly, but there's a term that's called dharma, and dharma generally means it's a hindu term that refers to purpose yeah, I think I've heard of this before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's different from serving other people. What it is is serving other people with your unique skills, and so if you you're not just asking them like why am I here, you're also saying, why am I here? To showcase what is unique about me. And I think that we often sterilize our uniqueness so we can look like what we imagine some kind of entrepreneur is supposed to look like. Right, but look at the people. Just go in and look at the top 20 richest CEOs in the world. They don't look alike. They look very different.
Speaker 1:They don't behave in the same way. They have some similarities, but I really believe that the more we can understand our uniqueness, the more we can figure out what our unique contribution in the world can be 100%.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's the key because once you find out you, and then also you find your tribe or the people that will celebrate you, that see your gifts and your talents and you're not trying to blend in, you're just being yourself some people want to really blow that up. They see that in you and they're like oh man, there's something special about you. And then they want to give you an introduction, they want to extend out an invite to you. They want to give you an opportunity because you're, you're showing up in your own unique way and people can feel that there is a. Is there a real vibration that really people can feel? Cause I know that, I know with me in particular, people always say they feel a certain energy or when they're in, especially in person, like the aura of just like they're like man.
Speaker 2:I've had people be like there's something about you, man. I don't know what it is, but do we? There's something that's going to happen? I don't know what it is, but do we? There's something that's going to happen? I don't know what it is, but like I just need you around, you know, and I've gotten invited to all types of stuff. So is there? Is that a real science, like the science of it. Is there really vibrations? Is there some kind of energy level that we're all giving off?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I have felt that about you. So I understand what that feeling is. Yeah, that you do. So there's a lot of different perspectives. One perspective is called mirror neurons. So in everyone's brain there are a set of neurons which are specifically wired to mirror other people's actions, intentions and emotions. So when you show up, you know like those people bum you out. Sometimes you're like they come into the room, they're like hi, hi, and you're like oh, hi, and you're like oh God, and you're not just reacting to them. Their emotion is getting registered in your mirror and all of a sudden they live in your head as that sulky person and then you're like I don't want this person in my head, like how do I get them out of my head? And by then it's too late. But when somebody comes in with a positive intention, and they come in with a positive emotion, it mirrors in your brain and then you feel enthusiastic about it because we have mirror neurons. And then there's a multiplying effect, because then my excitement's mirrored in your brain, your excitement's mirrored in mine. It goes back and forth. So you in his mind it goes back and forth. Yeah, so you know, I think the more we can create positive mirrors around us, the the stronger the connections will be.
Speaker 1:Because you know, when you think about strategic speed uh, it was uh davis and colleagues who wrote this book uh, looking at you know, what are the factors that help strategic speed in companies? They looked at the fastest companies in the world, some of the slower ones, and they found there's just three factors. It's clarity, not certainty. Clarity, unity and agility. So clarity, unity and agility. So let's break that down. Because what does that mean? It means that when you get up every morning, you don't have to be certain about what you're doing, but you do have to be clear about what you're going to be doing. And you't have to be certain about what you're doing, but you do have to be clear about what you're going to be doing. And you have to bring that clarity to everything you're doing. Whether you're constructing a product, whether you're marketing the product, whether you're selling the product, clarity is essential. The companies that are the clearest actually are the fastest. Unity is what we're talking about with this mirror neurons. You create a culture where people are just jazzed, they want to go. They want to go and say let's do it. You know my, the ceo of roulet, and I um patrick. He actually approached me and we're both co-founders of the company.
Speaker 1:I was in boston, I was in, I was in a more academic life. I was sort of, and I this guy contact, and you know, people contact me on linkedin. I don't usually respond to them, but there's something about the energy in his photograph. I was like, contact me on LinkedIn. I don't usually respond to them, but there was something about the energy in his photograph. I was like, oh, maybe I should contact this person. So I contacted him and he had a very respectful conversation because he felt he was talking to a Harvard psychiatrist or something.
Speaker 1:And I was like I'm going to New York because I was living in Boston then and I said, yeah, but what do we meet? I'll meet you for 30 minutes. And I was thinking I don't really want to spend longer than 30 because he was going on about health in a way that was a little bit boring. And so I meet him at my hotel and I had an upside down. There was about to go out, he looked right past me because I came down in a Swarovski crystal jacket and a Swarovski crystal tie. He was looking for a Harvard professor and he was like yeah, like there's three. And so I go up to him and I say hi, it's nice to meet you. And so he goes, you know, it's nice, you know? So I said do you want to get, do you want to have something to eat? And he was like yeah, you know, I've been eating like steamed fish, mostly recently, and I was like yeah sure I could do that.
Speaker 1:He said I'll get a steamed fish and some water. And I said, well, yeah, I've had a crazy day. I don't always eat like this, but I'm getting a hot dog, popcorn and martini. And he looked at me and he goes you're getting a hot dog Like you're a doctor and a martini. I was like, yeah, he goes. Well, I'll get one too, and fast forward to 30 minutes after that we were both rocking out to tunes on the street of New York running around and I was like this I can build a company with someone like this.
Speaker 1:Where there's fun, there's togetherness, there's unity, there's connection, but we're also super focused on what we want to have achieved. And you know, when you have unity is really like about. It's not just about let's hold hands and kumbaya Unity is about, like you know, about let's hold hands and kumbaya. Unity is about, like you know, let's be connected, because we actually are connected, like it's when you think about you, you and I like you're somewhere else, I'm somewhere else, but we're feeling connected.
Speaker 1:How, yeah because we are because the human brain is more like beads in a chain joined by consciousness, and I think agility is really about not being afraid to change your strategy. Like when we started Rulé, we were thinking we'll create a platform for calmness and then I was like you know what? This is not really us. I was like we're not. Like. On my Twitter profile at the time I said I was somewhere between martinis and meditation. Like I was like we like to have fun, we don't just want to be engaged alive. And so I said let's just switch this over to mindset. And now in the mindset space, it's opening up so much more. That's real, because I think it's who we are. But even then, I think we'll continue to be agile and I think every entrepreneur would benefit from thinking about those three questions Am I clear, do I have enough unity and am I agile? Because those are the guiding factors for strategic speed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for strategic speed, and I agree with every single one of those. I want to highlight something really quick in your story, because I always tell people how you position yourself is so important. So the whole reason why you have a co-founder in the first place is also he shot you a message, but it was his picture, his profile picture. He said this looks you know, this looks interesting. So, once again, I don't know what that profile picture looked like, but it was something intriguing enough where you were like you know what? I'm going to respond back to this why not? Why not? Let's see where this goes. Looks interesting and looks intriguing.
Speaker 2:And I often tell people with their personal brand, always, always, make sure that you're positioning yourself correctly and that your profile picture is something, that it looks like you and it's your characteristics. It has to be expressive. It needs to be something that captures somebody's attention and not the same old headshot that everybody else sees, where you blend in, where you kind of like I'm sure you've dismissed a ton of those messages. You're like you know, ah, it looks like it's somebody I went to, maybe to college with, or something Like I don't know if.
Speaker 1:I wanna go into that. I have it. It's also you know, it's also for me personally it's still a challenge Because you know I have people. I'm all kinds of people. If you see me during the day, I'm hyper focused in doing what I'm doing. If you see me out, you'll see me in these crazy clothes, wearing whatever I feel like wearing, doing whatever I'm doing. People are always like. You know, I actually hired a pretty serious branding company to help me think about my brand and my brand was at the time and it still is is Neuro Business Group. So I work as Neuro Business Group with companies helping them develop leaders, and I was like can you just you know research what I'm doing? And at that time I also had had these t-shirt designs that I'd been looking at that had all these they were slightly provocative, sort of brain-related themes like fill my think tank.
Speaker 1:And what was funny about it was they did a proper branding thing and they said we don't think you're in the position in the right space. And I was like what do you mean? We should change your name to neuro gangster, like GFTA? And I was like what Harvard trained psychiatrist and brain researcher works in biotechnology presents? Neuro gangster? Like how's that gonna work? I still don't know, because there's something to what they're saying that I see it, though, that I'm not like expressing in my life, and that's a real challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, that's, but I see what they're saying with it, I think. I think with you it might be more imagery, to be honest. To be honest, like sometimes even like with the music and the fashion stuff that you do, I think, being more expressive into all those other different areas of your life, but showing that expression visually I think might be one of the keys that they were kind of saying I don't know about a neuro gays, I don't know. I don't know if you want to go into boardrooms saying that, but they can know at least a little bit about your brand of what you give off, of who they're going to get when you show up, you know, and that may be a little bit different, but it's so. Having a brand and just having that to break the wall and make that connection is just so important. I loved when you also said that you're in between. You said martinis and meditation. Yeah, meditation, that needs to be on your.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn tag. It's got to be there because I feel it. I feel it. No, this is awesome, I think, on how we all grow our companies, I think the way on how you also articulate all of this, and I'm seeing a lot of things here also in the chat that people are loving kind of like how you're laying out things. And one thing I want to say how do we and maybe and I just want to understand from your point of view how do we build the right team around us, though? So, when it comes down to leadership, when it comes down to now, we have a little bit more clarity around, maybe, how we can look at ourselves, how we can show up. How do we build that team around us? Because and it seems like you've built great teams even around yourself in all the business ventures that you've done, and it's in different capacities, from fashion, music, from science to tech how do we build the right team around us to get us to where we're trying to go?
Speaker 1:So there are a couple of things I'll say that I caveat. So the first is it all starts with what it means to you to be a leader, and my favorite definition of leadership is probably one from one of the most famous researchers of leadership, who's Warren Bennis, who said, after all these years he died close to 90. His eventual conceptualization of leadership was becoming a leader is synonymous with becoming yourself. It's precisely that simple and also that difficult, and that captures it, because it's very hard to be all of who you are. You're like I might freak someone out if I went in a Swarovski crystal jacket and I always say to people I'm still me, it's just like what I'm wearing because I feel like doing it.
Speaker 1:But becoming a leader is synonymous with becoming yourself. And then you ask yourself well, what is the self? Now, remember I told you we have mirror neurons. Now, mirror neurons are where other people impact you, so you feel their emotions, you feel their intentions. So when I work with CEOs and they say you know, who do you think I should hire, I say do you want them to live in your brain? But anybody you hire? Like when I see you.
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I've never had anybody word it that simply before, never yeah because it's like, well, the person I'm seeing right now, like I'm talking to you, you are not just an image on a screen, you are literally living in my visual cortex. You are living in my hearing cortex, my auditory cortex. So your persona has become part of my biology, which is kind of amazing, right, that who you are and my persona has become part of your biology. Now, if you gather a team of toxic people around you, you're going to have like toxic here, toxic here, you want that. In your head. It's like I don't want that and I don't even want to get into toxic fights about it. So I think that one of the clearest ways to begin to develop a team is to unite around a mission and a vision, but not just cognitively, energetically. You know, like our chief revenue officer is someone who's Tim O'Connor, who Patrick Candela has known for a long time. They work together Like we're all different people but we unite energetically around just the way we interact in the world and you know, we have a lot of fun together. We laugh, we're similarly predisposed.
Speaker 1:People talk about diversity and I think diversity is helpful if it's not obstructive. If you have one person who is against your goal and another person is for your goal. It just slows you down. You have to strike the right balance. So I would say that the first thing is know who you are. The second thing is ask who do I want to live in my head? Because if I know who I want to live in my head, I know who I'll choose to be around me. And the third is to ask well, what is our common vision and energy, and does everybody feel independently motivated to do their thing? Because one of the things I most enjoy is I don't need for Patrick to tell me. He always jokes. He goes it's so fun. I was like do you need anything else? It's so much fun not telling you, because you try to read what I want, then I get it and then it feels like magic.
Speaker 1:I just want you to keep working your magic. And I was like, don't be ridiculous, what do you need now? And he goes. Trust me, I trust you implicitly. Just do your thing, because whatever you do, it's usually what I need.
Speaker 2:And so Wow, that's a high level of trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it works much better than that because then you know you're doing. You're doing what you're doing. Not everybody has the same schedule, not everybody has to control everybody, but we all have the same dedication to the goal and the end point of the timeline. Yeah, so I don't think you get a lot out of people who need to be controlled. I think people. There was a thing that I actually saw to the an interview, hr interview with Satguru, and he and they were talking to a bunch of CEOs and they said you know, humans are not resources, humans are possibilities. If you think of them as a resource, then you're just going to use what they've got. If you think of them as a possibility, you're going to ignite what they've got. If you think of them as a possibility, you're going to ignite what they've got because because they, they are possibilities everybody's got to work with you, man.
Speaker 2:Everybody needs to work. I I I've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews. I've interviewed amazing, amazing individuals and I'm going to continue to do it. The way how you describe things and the way on how you look at the world like this is what people need to tap into, because I hear that resource. I've spoken for huge HR conferences, especially with the change your circle change your life.
Speaker 2:People are trying to figure this out. You know, how do we, how do we get into new environments, learn about new, different people? How do we get them into our organization? So I get pushed and pulled to speak all over the place.
Speaker 2:They're all talking about resources and you said we need to look at people as opportunities and that is. It's just such a better framework of, of of for your mind to think about somebody, cause that's what I do that when I look at somebody, I don't think of them just as a resource to get them. You know, to pull out what they have. I look deep into I. Somebody just told me last week that it's like I look at what people's inner star is and I and I figure out how to ignite that within them, and that's how I look at every single person, because oftentimes I see something in themselves that they don't even see. I'm like, oh man, you're really good at that and I'm like you'd be perfect for this and I'd start to orchestrate and do my Picasso thing. But to your point, that's the way these leaders need to think about their people as what the opportunities are and not simply as a resource, especially for large organizations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if you think about another concept that I sometimes will speak with people about is a thing called self-organizing leadership, and self-organizing leadership the metaphor for that is the way birds fly. When you see a flock of birds flying, the leader is not going hey, come to the left, come to the right, hey, they're following the leader, they are organizing themselves from their own volition, and I think that when you're hiring people, I would look for that quality, look for the self-motivated. I want to organize, I want to figure out how we're going through the world together, because for me, life is a dance and it's a lot of fun when it is a dance and when you're having a ton of fun dancing, like I like some choreographed dancing, but what I really like is just letting go, and when you find a rhythm with someone and you're in that rhythm, it's pretty incredible. You know, there are studies done on what causes people to synchronize with leaders and what they did was they took a bunch of leaders and they gave them a question and then they had to do in groups of two and they had to figure it out. So they attached EEG leads to their brain so they could look at their brain waves, and what they found was the person who was chosen as a leader was the person who initiated brain synchrony. They had, they had a way of determining who initiated that, and they found that if you initiate synchrony, that person says, hey, you're a leader.
Speaker 1:So sometimes we go to meetings and we're like, man, this is going to be such a boring meeting. Now I hope these guys do what I want. I've got the dream, but I don't know about them. Well, you go to a meeting and you say everyone's so different here, how are we going to get on the same page? Well, what if you initiated synchrony and said, okay, we're all a bunch of different people here, but we've got something in common. You're beginning to initiate what that synchrony is. And being able to initiate that synchrony, I think, is key to forming teams. So I think, when forming teams number one, just think about who you are, because becoming yourself is really what being a leader is. Make sure that the people who are around you are people you want to be living in your head. Thirdly, unite people with a common purpose and vision. Fourth, remember that people are not resources, they're possibilities. And then ask yourself how can I ignite this and allow them to become self-organizing so that we can do this together, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, it's so powerful man, I could talk to you all day. I could talk to you all day. You have so much wisdom and I can tell you really know what you're doing Like. I mean to really unlock these things out of people, lead them down the right path. Yeah, you're incredible, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'm so, are you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is one of my. This is now one of my top favorite interviews, I would say, like I said, I've interviewed a lot of people, a lot of great people, but this is definitely one of the top ones. And so how can people learn a little bit more about your book and how can they get connected to you?
Speaker 1:So my books you can find on Amazon. Tinker Dabble Doodle Try is one I've just been showing you. But in addition to Tinker Dabble Doodle Try is the one I've just been showing you. But in addition to Tinker Dabble Doodle Try, I have a book called Life Unlocked Seven Revolutionary Lessons to Overcome Fear. I have one that's called your Brain and Business the Neuroscience of Great Leaders and the Science Behind the Law of Attraction. If you want to follow me on Instagram, I think that would be awesome. My Instagram handle is DrSrinipillay D-R-S-R-I-N-I-P-I-L-L-A-Y. It's the same on Twitter and it's the same on LinkedIn, and you can also follow me on my sub stack. I've created a thing called Recipes for Success 52 weeks of lessons so that in a year people would ask themselves like the concepts we talked about. They would have asked themselves just in a brief way 52 important questions so that you feel your forward-moving development and you feel your momentum. And you can see me on my website at nbgcorporatecom or at rouletcom or at drsrinipillaycom.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome man. This has been incredible. I know a lot of people have gotten a lot of good stuff out of this episode. It's been absolutely incredible. Everybody go get Srini's books. I know I'm getting the books. This is absolutely incredible conversation and I know you helped a lot of leaders here today and I know everybody also live in the chat is absolutely loving this.
Speaker 2:If everybody listening watching please like, comment, subscribe to the Forever Podcast. We're streaming on all platforms. You know we're everywhere and share this with somebody. Share this with somebody. Don't be stingy. Go everywhere and share this with somebody. Share this with somebody. Don't be stingy. Go ahead and share this with somebody that needs to hear it, that really needs to elevate their mindset, elevate who they are, become a better leader and ultimately, help those and serve around them. I mean, that's, that's what this is all about. And don't forget everybody. If you can change your circle, you can change your life. Thank you so much and we'll catch you on the next episode, peace. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe. And don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget you can change your circle to change your life.
