The Foureva Podcast
Welcome to The Foureva Podcast, where we break barriers and redefine success!
Join host Jamar Jones, a dynamic entrepreneur, national speaker, and author of "Change Your Circle, Change Your Life," as he takes you on an extraordinary journey of inspiration and motivation.
In each episode, we bring you an impressive lineup of star-studded guests, each with a unique voice and a wealth of insights to share. From industry leaders to renowned experts, we uncover their secrets to success in personal, business, and marketing domains. Prepare to be captivated by their stories, strategies, and experiences that will empower you to reach new heights.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, a marketing professional, or simply seeking fresh perspectives on life and business, The Foureva Podcast is your ultimate destination. Discover the transformative power of changing your circle and unlocking your full potential. With each episode, we delve into the minds of the most influential voices in the industry, providing you with the tools and inspiration you need to overcome obstacles and achieve greatness.
Don't miss out on this dynamic podcast that will fuel your ambition, challenge your limits, and propel you toward success. Tune in to The Foureva Podcast and join a community of driven individuals who are ready to make an impact. Get ready to be inspired, motivated, and 'foureva' transformed!
The Foureva Podcast
Courageous Leadership with Kim Crowder
In this episode of the Forever Podcast, we sit down with leadership consultant, keynote speaker, and musician Kim Crowder to explore what it truly means to lead with courage. Kim shares her powerful journey from sports marketing and corporate America to building a company dedicated to transforming leadership cultures.
She opens up about the importance of self-awareness, boundaries, and trust in the workplace, and why courageous leadership looks different in every organization. We also dive into how music can be used as a tool for connection, storytelling, and innovation in leadership development.
From lessons on failing forward to tips for building a successful keynote speaking career, Kim offers invaluable insights for executives, entrepreneurs, and anyone striving to grow as a leader.
🔑 You’ll learn:
- Why courageous leadership isn’t always loud—it’s about stability, empathy, and humanity.
- The biggest struggles leaders face (hint: it’s not what they think).
- How music can break down barriers and make leadership training unforgettable.
- Practical advice for becoming a sought-after keynote speaker.
- How to grow authentically and strategically on LinkedIn.
This conversation is full of wisdom, real-world examples, and actionable takeaways that will inspire you to rethink leadership, communication, and the power of connection.
You know you can watch great speakers, great people who do this really well. Yeah, Learn from them, but also what makes it yours? Play with that.
Speaker 2:That's so good and that will.
Speaker 1:It will take you time to figure that out, so just know that that's not a that you don't find that out immediately, frankly, yeah. You don't figure your style out immediately, but what you can do is you can start to play with it and find out what the where you know, does it connect with the you know, when people come up at the end don't be afraid to say you know what was.
Speaker 2:What was the one thing that stood out to you? Ask people what's up? Everybody? We're live with another episode on the Forever Podcast. We got Kim Crowder in the building. What's going on, Kim? How you doing.
Speaker 1:Hi, jamar, I'm doing well.
Speaker 2:Good, good, I'm glad you're doing well, especially in the crazy climate that we're in today. But I always say I'm blessed and highly favored crazy climate that we're in today, but I always say I'm blessed and highly favored.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know that well is in general like. You know what. I'm saying Like overall, I'm alive.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, hey. I always say a lot of times the little things in life you know, waking up every day, don't take that for granted. I mean, that's something that that's a blessing every single day. Some people don't get that. I agree. Yeah, that's a. It's always the small things that, uh, that we gotta be appreciative of. So you've done a lot in your, in your career, um, a lot in your life, and today we have a lot of, uh, c-suite. We have a lot of entrepreneurs, uh people that are building their brand and their business, listening and watching, and I really want to just get as much insight from you for the audience as possible. But first can you just let Scott set the stage really quick and let people know who you are and what you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my upbringing. I grew up, born and raised for the most part in Houston Texas, lived in Korea for a tiny bit growing up and started my career of sorts in sports marketing and PR, and so I worked at what is now the NRG Complex so that's where the Texans play in Houston, texas and it was I really feel like I got the best experience of being like thrown into the fire early in my career, because now I have nerves of steel because of it. But being there when Hurricane Katrina hit and a ton of people whose lives were destroyed by that hurricane then came to live on that property, and so having to deal with the media as part of that, but also honoring the humanity of the people who had who are the true victims of what happened moved on into. I've done everything. I've worked in retail grocery business. I work for a Fortune 500 grocery business, for Whole Foods, back before Jeff Bezos and Amazon bought it. I've also worked in healthcare Fast forward to now, in the government arena as well, fast forward to now.
Speaker 1:My team and I focus on courageous leadership, and when people ask that question, what is courageous leadership? I don't answer that question for people, and I'm going to tell you why? Because every time we step into an organization, courage may mean something different, based on that company culture, based on what that culture needs. If we were to be courageous, what is that? But I will tell you this every time I sit in a room with C-suite executives, I ask two questions. The first question I ask is C-suite executives, I ask two questions. The first question I ask is to give me one word that pops in your mind that describes courage. And people say things like bold, outspoken, daring, brazen. Right, you get all of those words. And then the follow-up question I ask is think about a leader who changed your life and who really saw you as a whole human being, both personally and professionally.
Speaker 1:And then, as you can imagine, the language changes, right People say things like they listened, they say things like they were empathetic, they were understanding that they were, that they guided me, that they were advocates, and so that is really when you think about. When I think about courageous leadership. That is what I'm trying to get across to people that courage is not always loud. It doesn't have to be, but courage is stability, courage builds trust, courage honors humanity and also courage gets the job done in a work environment. So that is Kim Crowder Consulting in a nutshell is walking into organizations, working with executives and building courageous leadership cultures within that organization that trickle down from the top throughout.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I love that you don't answer the question, because even when you said it the first time things popped in my head question Um, cause even when you said it the first time things popped in my head, I was thinking bold, confident, um, you know, risk taker, um, willing to go a little bit against the grain. Uh, you know, I started to think about all those things. Then, when you reframed it, I was like, oh, okay, okay, yeah, that's not necessarily the people that were in my corner, my advocates, necessarily the people that were in my corner my advocates, my sponsors, the people that believed in me and the reason for the change. It didn't often like meet those same things. So that's a really good way to think about it.
Speaker 2:And you've been in so many different spaces, which is very unique, very unique. You've been in just so many different like industries and arenas and places Very unique. You've been in just so many different like industries and arenas and places. What have you found through all the places that you've been to and the places that you've helped consult and help change a lot of these organizations. What's the one thing that people constantly struggle with?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good one when I what people struggle with. So I'll tell you what people think they don't struggle with. Most people think especially leaders think they don't struggle with Self-awareness.
Speaker 1:Right and self-awareness is a really powerful tool that I don't know that necessarily in society we're taught to have, especially depending on your background, right? I think women are taught to be very self-aware in culture and then when you move into men, it's at levels based on how you present to the world. Right, I have to be self-aware at this level in this environment. And so when we walk into workplaces, that's the one thing like people you know. You give people an assessment. They usually over index on how self-aware they are.
Speaker 1:The thing I will tell you where I watch people struggle in ways that directly impacts their personal life is having boundaries. Many leaders have poor boundaries, and then the expectation is that team members have poor boundaries, right, and then the expectation is that team members have poor boundaries, Right. And so the number of times I've sat in a speaking engagement and had leaders say things like you know, I come to work and I'm this great person and I go home and I unleash on my family. I unload on my family. Or I can remember cooking this one particular session where this woman cried in front of an auditorium of over 300 people and she said I go home at night and I'm cooking for my kids and all I. What I don't want them to remember is that mommy is yelling at them because she's on her phone checking her emails instead of being fully present.
Speaker 1:And then the follow-up question is why? Why is that your decision? And for many reasons, people show up in that way, and so I think we have this expectation that leaders are conscientious, or leaders have a very clear idea about their boundaries and who they are as human beings, when, in fact, how you move up in a workplace is very different than how you may show up in your day-to-day world. And so that is one of the things we try to do is help bridge the gap for leaders themselves to understand their own humanity, so, in turn, they can then honor that in team members, and what we know is that safe environments produce innovation. People are not innovative in work environments where they can't share or where they can't fail right.
Speaker 2:Because the only way that you're innovative.
Speaker 1:I mean, jamar, you and I are entrepreneurs. How many times have we failed in the ways that people have no idea about? Right, but the lessons that you learn and the perspectives that you gain is then what feeds you and moves you into this right.
Speaker 1:Where you have this podcast where everybody's coming in. But I'm sure at the beginning there were times you bombed and you were like maybe I'm not cut out for this. And so you know, and I've experienced that as a consultant, I've also experienced that as an artist, as a musician, I'm a singer.
Speaker 2:You don't get into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as a practitioner, and so this is all of what I'm saying is is that, in order to be a great leader, you really have to be able to see yourself as a broader human being, so that you can see your team members in the broader human, in the broader sense of humanity, so that, in turn, you can get what needs to be done done within the organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why is that not taught in today's society? Self-awareness? Because I have a book called Change your Circle, change your Life, and the first step in that is to unlock your self-awareness. I have a whole piece on it. Because you literally can't change your circle or change your environments or, in your case, you can't change your organization or your team. Um, if you don't start with yourself, you literally can't. So why is? Why is society built in a way where we are not first focusing on ourselves and becoming self-aware of these things and we're just kind of thrown into society and day-to-day life and not having to actually unpack these things to really help us and grow us the right way?
Speaker 1:Awareness. Self-awareness is complicated. When you start to dig into self-awareness, you have to dig into your past. You come face-to-face with the things that you miss on a regular basis and why you might miss those things, and I believe that the reason it's not taught is, a lot of times not a lot, maybe I shouldn't say that. I'll say this. In the best of organizations that we work with, what we find is that there is an ability in that leadership to allow your team members to be their selves as much as they want to be in the workplace Nobody wants to be their full selves in the workplace, like really but also that they express their own vulnerabilities. And I feel like self-awareness causes you to come face to face with your vulnerabilities and sometimes you have to admit those vulnerabilities out loud and that's not really a comfortable place for many people to be in.
Speaker 1:Scary, and unfortunately we don't always think about the critical thinking piece of business. Business has sort of been flattened down into A plus B will equal C. Right, it's just linear across the board, when in fact we know it's bigger than that. When you think about the ability to connect with your customers. All of that comes with understanding, insights and the humanity of the people you're trying to connect with, the ability to keep your team members, but not only keep them engaged. Keep them engaged at a higher level than normal, keep them from burning out in the organization, from losing your top talent. All of that is the ability to be self-aware and to understand your impact based on the power dynamics that you have as a leader, and so I don't know that we're always talking about things like power in work environments or the responsibility of power.
Speaker 1:What is the responsibility of power? Who owns the responsibility in interactions? What does that look like? I don't know that we're necessarily always talking about that critical thinking piece, right that? One size fits all is not going to work with every team member. And just because Harvard gave you a percentage number that says X is good for organizations across the board, is it good for your organization?
Speaker 1:You know is it good for your team, and so that critical thinking piece is so important. What we find is that many leaders do not receive leadership training. You sort of just move up into it based on either how hard you work, who you know, how long you've been somewhere Right. You sort of have this trajectory but you're not taught what leadership means on in that department, but also what leadership means to the broader organization overall. Can you you know if you walked up to people, jamar, and said, can you describe the leadership culture at your organization? I don't know that people would be able to automatically put that into words.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they would have to think about it. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I'm a comic book head. So when you talked about the power, with great power comes great responsibility. That's a quote from Spider-Man, it just popped in my head.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh man, you're hitting it right on the head and the power is a real thing. I mean, some people get drunk off the power, some people misuse the power and they don't even realize it because they just they kind of waving the hammer around and they don't even understand it. And then some people don't know when to exert the power and they're taken advantage of, or leaders are kind of. Then they start to kind of clam up and let people kind of run all over them, and that's not a great way to lead people.
Speaker 2:So I feel there's a lot of different ways you can take the word power and look at yourselves and say, hey, how am I using my power in the role that I'm in, and am I using it for good? Am I also using it in a way where I can help others with their power as well? So I think that's fantastic and so spot on. So I want to talk real quick about your. What does music mean to you and do you have? How do you embed music into your, into your organization and everything that you do?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. So here's what I will tell you. As a Business owner You're not. I don't think I always knew how to have fun as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as a practitioner. It was always about the work, and the work was staunch and it was tight, and here's what we did. And then I started going well, wait a minute, you have this whole toolkit as a musician that you are not using. And so here's what I'll tell you. There are studies and there's science connected to this right Behavioral science, where we know that people connect events, people connect memories with music. So you can hear a song, jamar, and it takes you all the way back to when you were 13 years old, and you know who you had a crush on, you know whose class you were in when the first time you saw them old, and you know who you had a crush on, you know whose class you were in when the first time you saw them, and you know what I'm saying. Like you can connect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:You know, you have this whole memory, and so I started going why aren't we using this as a part of leadership development? Sometimes we use it in a way to like if we have breakout sessions where we may play music, so people can use that music. So it may be something more low key, but sometimes there may be a time where we're trying to get something across and it feels that the energy of the room feels tight, like there's a discomfort with discussing it right on the nose, and so you go well, is there a song, a catalog? Go well, is there a song, a catalog? When I go through my catalog, is there a song that I can play, where then people are more comfortable interpreting what's in the song, just to break the ice, to move that conversation forward. And so music for us is a strategy.
Speaker 1:I can talk about what music has been in my personal life, like being a singer, being in front of people. It has always been a strategy. I was just thinking about this this morning. Interestingly enough, it's been a strategy to connect with other people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that is that is it Like you, which is why, as a practitioner, as a speaker, I can walk into a room and I can shift based on the energy of the room. I know how to pivot, but you learn that, as a musician, you watch the space, you watch how people are connecting, but also there's a fearlessness where you can look people in the eye as you are sharing and you understand that you are speaking a language that they've needed to hear for a long time but maybe just weren't able to get it somewhere else. Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's the beauty to me of involving music not only just music itself, but the practice of being a musician, bringing that forward into the work we do. Now I'm playing with some things. Later on It'd be interesting if your listeners wanted me to start a playlist, because I'm thinking about starting a Cour leadership playlist and some songs that will get leaders through the day Right. If anybody's interested in that, by all means just DM me on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Kim Crowder and I'm happy to do that because I again, I think it's a unifier. Music is such a unifier. You don't have to always know the language, you don't always have to necessarily have ever heard the song before, but it is certainly a way to build bridges and it's a way to to sort of carve out a niche, like a nick in somebody's brain so that they remember what they learned and connected to whatever song or whatever lyrics were were being played at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100 percent, honestly, that's that's kind of what drew me to you. When I found out that you sung, I was like, oh, I got to interview her. Now, that's just the icing on the top of the cake, because the work and everything else that you do is incredible. But I was like, oh man, and she understands the entertainment world singing, getting in front of a crowd, the power of music, which is very courageous.
Speaker 2:Yes, Very courageous, and there's nothing like music that connects people together, and even for leaders listening and watching, think about it too, like when you guys run your annual meetings or you have your internal conferences. Oftentimes you're always yes, you have the education piece, you have the learning and team building and all that stuff, but usually there's something at the end, and usually it's music. You're bringing in a band, you're, you're, you're trying to get people to dance, you're trying to get people to connect in that way of music, because music is such a powerful tool, and what Kim is talking about is not just using it just at the end when you want people to connect and celebrate, put their hands up. It's also about using it to connect in even a more intimate and powerful way throughout your organization. So start to think about communication and so many different ways to do it, and sometimes you don't always need to have verbal words all the time.
Speaker 2:It's sometimes communication, like you said. Sometimes the words aren't there, but then that song comes on and you connect with somebody and you both feel the vibe, the music, the tempo, the beat, and then you're just like, oh, man, oh, and you're both moving. There's just something powerful about just not saying anything, but you're both in that that element, right, it's just so, so powerful. So what, what has been some of the um, uh, when you were actually performing? What is some of the energy and, uh, what you see out in the crowd when you're performing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, you know it depends.
Speaker 1:So, look, I want to take this two ways the first way is, is I understand the benefit of the benefit and also the fear or the trepidation that may come with taking a risk. As a musician, you are the person, the spotlight is on you, everyone is looking at you. But taking a risk can sometimes mean you blow, mean that you blow it because I've blown it, um. I mean like I have blown it on stages, especially at things like open mic, um and jazz, where you just you get up there and you've never played with these musicians before, like I've blown it, oh man, but one thing I always challenge blown it.
Speaker 1:One thing I always challenge myself to do is go back to the scene. I always say, go back to the scene of the crime. So I go back and I redeem myself. Right, that is just. That's a. That's a private rule I have with myself.
Speaker 1:And so when you think about working with this executive leadership team or you think about working with a group of board members and you can be transparent about we, I know what it is to fail. I know what it is to try to be innovative and something misses or it doesn't quite connect. I also know what it is to go back in the lab, tweak it and then go back and the power of that. And so that's one thing I've learned, because I think that's important. There's an honesty there about you don't always get it right.
Speaker 1:On the flip side, when you win and when people are walking up to you with tears in their eyes and saying you just don't know how much I needed that. Or just to watch somebody smile from the front to the like, from the time you step on stage to the end, the power of that. Or to watch people you know dance to what you've created, it really is beautiful, and so, again, that's one of the reasons why music is so important. I remember working with a leadership team and I said I was we were talking about. I can't remember exactly what we're talking about, but it didn't feel like it was really landing or there was a high level of discomfort with talking about it. So I played Marvin Gaye's Make Me Want to Holler.
Speaker 1:It's one of my favorite songs in the world and I watched the president. He started dancing in his seat. This is like virtually he's dancing in his seat. People are writing and brainstorming, and then we go back and we talk about it from the perspective of how do the lyrics reinforce what we've been talking about?
Speaker 1:So, now you can break the ice in ways that maybe people weren't comfortable with before, and so that's some of the ways that we use music. I also sing during speaking engagements because, again, it's another way to tell a story that's really powerful. If you want people to remember what you're saying, they'll remember at least the song you sang and what you said right after it, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whatever lyric you sang, but at least what you said right after. So, again, it creates these notches of memories in people's brains in ways that they may not be able to connect any other way, and music is certainly storytelling, so in those ways that we can tell those stories again, it's just like all of these avenues and tools that you can use to make leadership development sit and linger, because too often leaders walk in spaces, learn something they're not quite sure how to implement it into their day-to-day. And what I love is working with a client where they learned something two years ago. We come back two years later and they're still doing it. But not only are they doing it, they've expanded it.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:It becomes this ripple effect and so it's almost like you expand it to it to the choir. You start telling people, somebody else tells somebody. They're able to teach what they learn in our session to a hundred plus other people. So now they have this 150 percent return on investment because they were able to connect with what they learned and implement it and move it forward that is that is. That is what music is like. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent yeah.
Speaker 1:You're able to use. You're able to sing a song and somebody next to you knows the words, and before you know it ever, you can get a whole crowd singing Just by the impact of, of the beauty of what music is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is just incredible when that does happen. Of what music is yeah, which is just incredible when that does happen. I remember when I was performing a ton before my incident, when I started to actually get the crowd to remember the lyrics and then show up to the shows. Oh, there was nothing like it. There was nothing like it. It's just so powerful.
Speaker 2:But this is also ways that not even in a music term I mean. So as leaders, we're trying to communicate out something to another individual, and the better we can become in communicating, the better that translation is going to be, the better. That person is going to be a sponge and soak that up and then be able to reiterate that to other people and that ripple effect is going to happen. And then you're going to hear a sponge and soak that up and then be able to reiterate that to other people and that ripple effect is going to happen. And then you're going to hear about that and be like, oh man, I remember I told this person this, and then you started to see the ripple effect throughout your team, throughout your peers, and there's just probably no better feeling. I mean, you may not be on the stage, but there's probably no better feeling than having that actually be reciprocated like because, jamar, it boils down to everybody wants to have some little impact like.
Speaker 2:The truth of the matter is is.
Speaker 1:We all want to know that we matter somewhere, that we're impactful in some way, right, and so what you're talking about is testing that. Can I, can I be impactful here? And if I'm impactful, can people remember it? And then I that I put the messaging in a in a and demonstrated it, because it's not just about the words, it's. I demonstrated it so well that people were able to take it, repackage it and share it back out. All of that is part of the goal for any leader who has a vision within an organization. When you talk about that executive team or that board that has a vision that needs to ripple out throughout the organization, the ways that that has to happen is you have to know how to package it and communicate it so that everyone across the organization not only buys into it, but also they need to see it in action. Right, what does that look like? And to be clear about what the expectations are and be accountable for that in an organization, we've worked with teams I would say the teams that where we see this be the most impactful is where there is accountability in some way. So it could be that you have the leaders within a department or within the organization. But you also have a committee of team members who they directly trust, and so that committee is making major decisions and the leadership team sees them as informants right, okay, great, well, we trust you in that way. As informants right, okay, great, well, we trust you in that way. And so the more that we can build a semblance of community within organizations, the more that we can build that trust factor and that ripple effect, the more that we see team member satisfaction go up, we see team member innovation go up, we see team members stick around longer.
Speaker 1:So those you know, coming back to an organization in particular at the University of Michigan, a department in the University of Michigan, they haven't had a bunch of turnover in two years. They get to keep their money. They also get to keep the brilliant talent and those brilliant minds. Team members get to say, hey, I'm overworked or I'm having personal challenges right now. They openly say that, right. And then the leadership says, ok, well, what can we do to support that? They grieve together as a team. And so I've watched. You know, I'm like sometimes you find that client. You're like, oh, I struck gold with y'all and I don't know how I got here. Gold with y'all and I don't know how I got here, but thank goodness, because then you learn where the work that you do thrives the most.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and there's no. That's another amazing feeling when you strike gold on a client like that. It's funny that you said that, kim, that you're like I don't know how we got here, because I mean, sometimes it's a connection, it's a referral, it's you went out to an event and you just stumbled across and you met somebody, but then they end up being just like the, the perfect client. It's your archetype, yeah, your archetype.
Speaker 1:I'm like wow.
Speaker 2:Shout out to LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they found us on LinkedIn. Shout out to LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Yeah but they connected with the work that we were doing and then, like I said, two years later, we still see each other as advisors and team members that were part of their expanded team, and we've watched the progress. They just won a national award for the work that they've done, based on, again, something they learned from us two years ago again something they learned from us two years ago. You can't beat that, and so when I talk about things like harmony on a leadership team, I use words that are associated with music, but I talk about it in business terms and what it produces.
Speaker 2:And again.
Speaker 1:It's another way to storytell in ways that people go okay, I get that, that's a case study and I understand now how it could look for our team. What does that look like? How does that actually move and breathe and live in our organization, Not just on paper, right? This is not just our mission statement. This is what are we willing to live out as leaders and executives, so that everyone within the organization knows it is expected of them as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Do you got a video testimonial from them yet? Yes, A lot of them Good I was like good Guys, go check that out, Go to our website. We haven't put it out yet.
Speaker 1:We're working on a new website, but they have recommended us on LinkedIn twice.
Speaker 2:Oh, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1:But yeah, they are an amazing team, Really amazing team. John Loafey is their leader, Melanate Delbecchio and I have you know this is great. I'll send this to them and let them know that I sang their praises. But they really are some of my favorite clients because I've watched them take what they've learned and just and run with it, run with it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The implementation, like the work, can be great. You can say all the right things, but it does take the other side to actually implement and then stay on track, stay consistent.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right and actually keep up the pace to actually get the real impact and change that comes around. So that's absolutely incredible. I want to talk a little bit about your keynote speaking. So you've been keynote speaking for a number of years and a lot of my audience is either they're leaders in spaces where they're often doing presentations and they're doing their own keynotes. Maybe it's at user conferences, maybe it's at their own internal conferences, or maybe it's a side thing for them. They're working their day to day, but they're also trying to build their speaking business. And then we have a lot of entrepreneurs and speakers and authors and coaches and people that listen as well that are keynote speaking or want to get into speaking. What do you feel like are the tools that you need to be successful as a keynote speaker in today's time?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say the first thing that a lot of people may struggle with is you really have to be authentic in that space. When you show up as a keynote speaker, people really do look to connect with you. One of the things that I love about speaking is you get to watch people's faces about whether or not they're connecting with your messaging. But also I like the end where people start asking questions. Yeah, and you can bring about little solutions in the interim right, Like at the end.
Speaker 1:And so one of the things I would say to people is to very much so be authentic, Be clear on your messaging. What is, what is the message? What's the point? What do you? What is the one thing? If they can't say any, if they don't know anything else, what's the one thing that they can take home?
Speaker 2:with them.
Speaker 1:And if they had to explain it to someone else, they could clearly articulate that. So find out what that apex is in your speaking, and then I would say that third thing is yes, you take from other people in the way of. You know, you can watch great speakers, great people who do this really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Learn from them, but also what makes it yours. Play with that. That's so good and that will. It will take you time to figure that out, so just know that that's not a that you don't find that out immediately. Frankly, yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't figure your style out immediately, but what you can do is you can start to play with it and find out what the where you know does it connect with the audience? You know, when people come up at the end, don't be afraid to say you know what was, what was the one thing that stood out to you? Ask people, don't be afraid to get those surveys at the very end. Give people a QR code, let them respond back to you and take both the positive and the stuff you don't want to hear and comb through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying Like comb through it, implement what needs to be implemented, be you know, get to a place where you can sort of weed out where you go. I didn't hear that enough, so that's not a common enough theme.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I am seeing this enough across Like take. You know use data as part of data sharing. You know data gathering as part of your strategy for being a keynote speaker, and then the last thing I'll say is stop, re, stop recreating a speech every single time you do it. Yes, you will never. You will never have a day off, you'll never sleep at night. Find that keynote that people connect with and live in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can play with it. You structure it. You know you can structure it a little differently where necessary, but find that, that keynote, find the stories that people connect with on a you know, over and over and over and over, and use that as your springboard, because I can promise you that there's a book that I read, oh, I think it's called the Remarkable Speaker. I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've heard of that book. I think it's called the.
Speaker 1:Remarkable Speaker and he talks about in that book. You just need one strong keynote. People will want that thing. Once you spend enough time with it, live with it, get the feedback necessary and you really perfect it, people will continuously want that. And so take one thing and then you know like it's like being a sculptor, like you know you. You may carve something out of rock and you're like it's not quite right, it's not quite right.
Speaker 1:It's not quite right. And then you'll get to a place where you're like, dang, I got it this is it? So I would say that those are. Those are some things that I can think of off the top of my head. People who want to invest, be a be a speaker, where you invest in yourself and really where you invest in the skillset of speaking. Don't think of it as something I could just get up out of. You know, I just do it, you know, like just wing it.
Speaker 1:It'll be it, it'll be fine, it'll be fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to get in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you really do it takes work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, because it feels cushy.
Speaker 1:Everybody's like I want to be a speaker.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:You know it feels super cushy, but when you have to get off of a plane, and then drive two hours to wherever you're speaking. Do you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:People don't know the stuff that goes on in the back, especially when you're new at it. Sign up for those free conferences to speak, practice that, be okay with that. Take that ego down and put it aside. You do get to a point where you're like okay, I've done enough where I can't do for the free.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, but then you, you can go. If I have to do it for free, what can they give me instead? Right, yeah, but you, you have to think about where you be honest about where you are, where your experience is, and be willing to. You have to work, you have to perfect in public, like you're perfecting the doing. You don't perfect, but you perfect. Behind the scenes, yes, but where you really find out if you, if you've it, if you're there is, you do that in the doing.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, kev. First of all, you just laid out a ton of. First of all, I got a comment, and now I'm going to add another great tool that you have, which is absolutely, guys, what we're talking about. Everything that she said, it was absolutely spot on, absolutely spot on, and everything goes back to music. Everything goes back to music. So think about this One of your favorite artists. When they first came out, what drew you to them? It was probably their hit single, right? They all have one song that everybody knows them for, it's true.
Speaker 2:And they just hammer that song again and again, and again and people don't want to hear all the album fillers and all the other stuff.
Speaker 1:Unless you're Sade. Unless you're Sade, sade. People tend to like the B-sides, but she's one of the few artists. But you are right, you are right.
Speaker 2:There's always exceptions to every rule.
Speaker 2:There's always exceptions to every rule. There's always exceptions, but, uh, normally people want to hear the hits. They want to hear the songs that they, and they want it over and over again. That's why, even like the 50 uh year old, um, uh, hip-hop celebration is like, people still want to hear the hits, not the new songs that you know, um, ice cube just came out with. We want to hear the hits, not the new songs that you know Ice Cube just came out with. We want to go way back and hear and hear the bangers.
Speaker 2:So it's the same thing as a keynote speaker. Perfect that speech, perfect that speech. Get your hit single and then keep humming that thing over and over. Yeah, you can change it depending on the city or the situation or what's going on. Just change a little bit of the wording or speak directly to that audience and and really hone in on on that group, but the same. It's got to be the same thing. The same song over and over. The same presentation.
Speaker 2:Um, and then the part that you said like, hey, you got to get out there and practice the same thing. Like you said, you did open mics. Right, it's the same thing. It's like you went out there and open mics before. Maybe somebody paid you to come out and perform before, but you got the reps in.
Speaker 2:So I oftentimes like, especially for a lot of executives, they're trying to get into speaking and maybe their company has sent them out to speak here and there and they're trying to branch out further than that and they kind of have this like ego or expectation that oh, I should get you know X amount to come out and like, no, you still got to put the reps in. Man, you had somebody just sending you places. Now you're out on your own. You got to start getting the reps in, especially if you don't have the content and the media and the other pieces. That kind of are like the cherry on top. And that's why I kind of want to talk about. Your speaker reel is incredible. Your speaker reel is incredible. Yes, I've seen thousands and thousands of speaker reels. It's very good. It's very good.
Speaker 1:How important is that speaker reel to you? You know that is the first time that I did a speaker reel. That was intentional, and what I mean by that is in the past, you know, you sort of like shove all your videos together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, montage.
Speaker 1:Right, but it was the first time I really told the story of why we do what we do, and I talk about in that speaker's reel that we do this as a forward movement, that we are thinking about what is what we do today going to mean for the future, for the next generation and really those you know, you think about that, for organizations and leadership teams that are forward thinking. Hopefully it rings a bell, and so that was a bit of a sort of a coming to moment of saying this is what I want to share with the world, this is what I want people to understand about me as a speaker and this is how I would like people to perceive you know me yeah, and so that was the first time that I.
Speaker 1:I did that and worked, real worked alongside with, with CraigHutt, who is a really amazing videographer to tell that story, and I remember the first time seeing it I sent it out to a couple of people and said you know, just give me your feedback.
Speaker 2:Cause I, you know, you just.
Speaker 1:I crowdsource and I got back. You're done Like. You don't need any tweets. It's just like this, is it? Leave it just? And this stuff from people who make money as speakers and who have been doing that for years. And so it just felt like you know, we got it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's great. It's fantastic, yeah, it's just, it's so good. And it shows, too, that the importance, guys, of also getting a lot of the content as you're doing this. So, a lot of times, yes, maybe you might be speaking for free, but really it's an investment into what the future is going to hold. So get photos, get videos, get testimonials so it's not for free. Once again, kim said it you're investing in yourself. You're investing in yourself. So it might not be as a paid engagement, but you are really doing the work to get to the paid engagements. And with a speaker reel like that, everybody go to check out Kim's speaker reel. It's on our LinkedIn, probably be on our website in the future. So please check out the speaker reel.
Speaker 1:And can I add something real quick? Yeah, go ahead. The one tool that people can easily use If you say I don't have the money for a videographer tool that people can easily use, if you say I don't have the money for a videographer. I can't afford it Right, Get a tripod, no excuse. That video, that some of that video that is in that speaker's reel, was shot on my iPhone.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, shot on my iPhone, and so it's doable. You can. There's also websites where you can hire a videographer in town, wherever you're going to speak. You can hire a photographer in town. I didn't even know those resources existed until a friend of mine told me about it.
Speaker 1:But yeah keep records, keep records. You know, if you can get people talking about you in video, tell people to post about it on social media. What was their favorite quote? Get people involved in telling your story. Uh, because it's one of the ways that that we've been able to have that ripple effect is is when someone in the audience who's a buyer watches the the ways that it impacts the other people right, you know what I mean then.
Speaker 1:Then, all of a sudden, you have a speaking gig that you didn't even plan to get. That's the hope you, you, always want. You know you're like you always want them to piggyback off of each other, but just oh yeah you really have to think about all the ways that you can maximize any opportunity.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. So such great, such great, just information on how to be a speaker, insights and, honestly, anytime I ask that question when people are really doing it, like that's how I know you're really doing it, because, like, and you're a good speaker, because the that feedback that you just gave it, when, guys, that was that was probably years of trial and tribulation that you just heard Boiled down into a very condensed form that you just heard, um, boiled down into a very condensed form that you just got to literally get a couple shortcuts, guys, and you're speaking. So please hone in on that, um, okay, so, uh, two last things. One thing uh, really quick.
Speaker 2:So a lot of us, um, also from our business side and our brand side, we're trying to grow also in social media. So I want to talk a little bit about how you were able to grow your LinkedIn following. What clicked? Was it videos? Was it content? Was it maybe timing? I know a lot of times I talk to a lot of different people it's timing. Was there any particular videos or posts that you did that did exceptionally well? That really kind of was the rocket ship. Just give us a little insight on what the formula is as far as how you grew the audience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say timing. I do believe timing was a thing. So what people may or may not know is that when I had had a LinkedIn profile for years, it just didn't do anything. I mean, you know, I'm working in corporate America like who has time to come up with posts. I didn't have those. Some of these young people are killing it. I'm like, oh, how do you have time?
Speaker 1:Um, I did not at that time I was, you know, especially in the executive space. I think I was a late comer to LinkedIn. When I really started posting was when I was let go from a job. And so it was just. You know, sometimes you get an organization you're like this is not the match, Like it's just not for whatever reason, it just doesn't connect. And so I said well, I'm just going to try this thing.
Speaker 1:You know, I've been side hustling it for years and I'm just going to try it and what I'm going to do is just speak from, speak from a place of what, of my experiences, what I've observed, maybe what I've observed from different clients, and that was it. It. Just it really took off. Um and it was kind of shocking, I mean like for people you know. You start to see the numbers go up and you're like this is something like you know, because you don't. Well, I didn't do it for that reason.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I did it just to test my voice out in the world. I did it to gain clients. When you ask me what is really connected, you know it's really interesting. Here's what I will say. Something for people to realize is that the people who buy from you may never comment.
Speaker 2:That is so true.
Speaker 1:I think, actually-. It's probably 90% of the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say it's a high number. It's a high number. I'm thinking about all our clients, everybody that's booked me to speak, consulting. It's probably, yes, it's high. It's like 90 percent of people because you, you started.
Speaker 1:You sort of see the names of people over and over who yeah who make comments or whatever, and you know, usually people who come are like I've been watching you for years. That's another thing. People watch, watch you for years before they ever become your buyer, and they watch how you connect with people in the comments. So people are gracious enough to comment on your post. Be gracious enough to respond and be thoughtful in your responses, but also be strategic. Can it show some of your expertise? Can you hold space for someone who just wants to tell their story, who went through a hard time in the workplace? I did. You asked me what does? Well, that has changed since the algorithm of LinkedIn has changed and now it's really. You know it's. It's a little more challenging for posts to be seen. You know, like back when I started posting, it was just boom, you post something, and it was.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Now it really is. You have to watch your impressions. That's an important number, more so than you watch the engagement, I would say. And so I do it in this order I do impressions and then I do comments.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How many people are willing to talk to me, and sometimes that doesn't necessarily equal the likes and the loves and all the different ways that you can respond back, but what I have found that does really well.
Speaker 1:I just did a post not that long ago about how I became, why I decided to focus on leadership, learning and development, and I tell the story of being in a work environment in two ways. One, I was a director over my department, but also I sat in the executive committee. So I was executive and a director, which is an interesting position, and I talk about the differences between how the executive team worked with each other versus how my team worked with each other. And I also showed a picture of my skin then versus now. And that work environment was so stressful at the executive level that my skin it showed up in my skin the levels of stress and that sort of thing. And then I asked people what has a leader done for you to make you feel seen in the workplace? You would be shocked at the number of people who commented on that post, People who wanted to talk about leaders who changed their lives, who talked about the practical ways.
Speaker 1:It wasn't just like, oh, this leader is really nice. It wasn't just like, oh, this leader is really nice, no, they talked about how their leaders sat with them during hard you know hard projects and worked alongside them and answered their questions. They talked about how, how conflict resolution was such an important part and how team productivity increased because of that. I one now I have those stories to build on because I'm like, oh, this, you know, you, I see it as data sharing, Like I can learn from what's in those posts or from in those comments, but also you build relationships with people that way.
Speaker 1:You affirm people in those comments. You DM people who you know. You're like I really love what you said. You build relationships that way. You know you're like I really love what you said. You build relationships that way. And so it can be a bit of a business development tool or just you get to meet somebody who is always commenting. There's a woman who always her comments are out of this world and I actually I've been meaning to say why don't we know each other? And so it's a way for you to you know, it's a way for you to meet new colleagues. So I would say the things that have really done well is when I have authentically connected with people, when I have been willing to be vulnerable when necessary, and also and we're actually working on some things right now those posts that give people something they can go home with and actually use.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah people something they can go home with and actually use. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but not necessarily like a how to per se, but more of hey. Here's some common mistakes or here's what you should be looking for when you are um looking for a partner in in leadership, learning and development, things like that that people can actually use.
Speaker 1:I would say that those have been the things. And imagery is another one People love to see, see something, people love to be able to connect with a visual. It makes you stand out right yeah, 100 yeah, so having a visual is really important, jamar. Interestingly enough, I haven't done a lot of video, um, not of myself talking to the camera, and actually I'm like I got a full face of makeup on today.
Speaker 2:I might uh just do that, but I haven't.
Speaker 1:They might be the day, yeah I haven't done a lot of video, but I do see people do video and it does well for them. So you'll find out. Some people don't want to talk to the camera. I get that. You'll. Just you have to practice and throw some things at the wall and find out what works for you, what works for your sector and the people who are interested in what you have to say.
Speaker 1:But I will say this do um research on when to post yep 100 you know like know when to post, and just because it's general research practice like, does it like for me. I know posting at the 30 minute mark does better than the 45 minute mark. Yep, for us so you know just do some research behind it and be intentional about it and have fun. Have fun on LinkedIn, Um, and then get off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, stay on the first hour comment with people and then go like do go back go get away from it, because it can suck in, tuck you in and take your time, and that's not what you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent. This has been absolutely incredible, absolutely incredible. Also, just on the LinkedIn stuff, guys, and really any social media platform. But if you're trying to grow on LinkedIn I know a lot of our audience wants to grow on LinkedIn Guys go check out Kim on LinkedIn and just look at also look at her posts that she's talking about.
Speaker 2:As far as from the copy, look at the imagery, look at the storytelling, look at all those pieces and then use it as an example. Don't copy, don't copy. Use it as an example to really help you with your posts, because I know a lot of people struggle with okay, how do I get that engagement on social media? And there is a little bit of a science to it. But I and I don't want to overcomplicate it and I don't think Kim did that either today but there, there's a little bit of a science to it.
Speaker 2:But first start by being consistent. Just get out there and be consistent and then start to get those reps. Just like with keynote speaking, just like with your companies, with your organization, all the things that we've been talking about you have to have reps. So just get some reps in and take some of the format of what Kim is doing as far as her storytelling, some of the imagery, some of the creativity around it. Just take some of the format and go copy. Take some of the format and then just try to apply it to your own life and your own situations. I mean, you all have a story to tell. You all have an amazing story to tell. So you just have to kind of get the reps in and get the practice. But, kim, this has been absolutely incredible to have you on the podcast. Where can people connect with you? How can people find you?
Speaker 1:LinkedIn is a great place. Linkedin is living and breathing. I could say the website, but I really believe LinkedIn is the place where you get to see me and my team in action. So follow me on LinkedIn, Kim Crowder. We're releasing a newsletter soon, a LinkedIn newsletter soon. I'm excited about that, and we've got some other surprises coming up in 2025. So stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Cool. Well, everybody, please connect with Kim, please, please, please, please, connect with Kim. Everybody is reachable. That I have on this podcast, no matter how far in the sky that you think they are, they're all reachable. So please feel free to reach out and don't forget to like, comment and subscribe on to this episode. If you heard something that you need that was very impactful for you today, please take it. Take action for you and also for your organization, for your business, and share it with somebody. Share it with somebody. Don't be selfish. Give this out to somebody and don't forget if you can change your circle, you can change your life. Thank you again, kim, for being on the episode and we'll catch you guys on the next one. Peace. Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe, and don't forget to hit that notification bell for more amazing content that we're going to be putting out. And don't forget you can change your circle to change your life. Thank you.
